Topic: Grey Marble Table Roll Pins

[John M]

Hello All,

I have just replaced my Shelti with a 07 grey marble coin-op.   The table was pretty dirty as it was in a bar but has come back to life fantastically.  I would like to say that this site has been a great resource during my 3 month long search....especially the BBTuna buying guide for coin ops....I had some deals that died but this one worked out and I got the table for 400.

I have a question about the roll pins....if I replace the yellow man on the 3-bar closest to the handle....do I hammer out the roll pin on the handle to get the new man on there?

Also what is the proper procedure with taking the old broken pin out and putting the new one in?

All I have found is put the teeth up....I dont want to go hammering and bend a rod or something.

Thanks

[bbtuna]

thanks for the props, SUPER GREAT BUY...how do you like compared to the Shelti so far?

on the pins...first on bending rods etc...well, i have never used anything and neve bent a rod but some will put a block of wood they make or buy sized to the space between table and rod and some use the bearing wrench which is exactly that height...

i don't like to use the wrench, i am much more concerned with scratching the table then bending the rod

i pull the rod all the way to the wall closest the pin i am punching

roll pin punch and a standard or finishing hammer...tap gentle to start to get a feel for how easy they are going to move, when you get close, slow the swing and put your hand under the rod to catch the pin

man nearest handle....you have to remove 3 pins no matter so just take all three of the 3 man out and pull the rod until the non-handle end comes past the far bearing... pull bumper and men, replace near man and other 2...make sure they are faced the right way (trust me, you change enough of them and you will put one on backward, its just a matter of time) - replace bearing, hole side out facing wall

put first pin on man nearest handle and work out from there...hopefull you have good eyes because you have to align the hole on the rod with the holes on the men and this is the hardest part of the process by a long shot (especially for old eyes ) 

i start pin hammering without roll punch and then when the pin is flush, i take the roll pin out and use it like a conter sink and put the pin just below the surface (same distance on both sides)

just a note, sometimes the men are real tight and stubborn so don't be surprisef if you get a hurnia while trying to remove OR add one on

[John M]

Thanks...this sounds pretty simple...I am going to be putting several pins in the men as well as the handles because some wiggle a bit.

The tornado is a night and day difference....mainly in the speed that the ball comes off the wall and the surface is much faster.  The shelti men are a hard plastic and make a kind of tic tic sound when passing which I never really liked because the ball could deflect off the foot really easily.

I basically wanted to get a tornado because I want to play in a tournament and I just started playing recently.

[bbtuna]

thats great and exciting...do you have a local weekly tournament group you can begin to get involved with?  there is a lot of information available on this site with practice tips and strategy stuff and its a long read but a good one "Mental Attitude"  http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2485.0

here is a basic on practice...you can skim my stuff since i am not a provin top player but i have quotes from the best in the world worth reading on practice

http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=1543.0

feel free to ask all questions on the board and you can contact me any time and I will pass on what i know

i will give this, which i have not shared here before, but as you are starting out, start right away to discipline your mind that DEFENSE is not about speed...the game on the surface for almost everyone starting out is about speed on speed like two sprinters squaring off...i wish someone had talked to me about this early on so i could develop the right approach

this game is about strategy, baiting, and being or going where you want when you want and not when it is dictated to you.  the natural human tendency is to move when the offensive player moves but defense is about making the offensive player do what you want and disrupting their mental process

if you can get a player to  think about different things and to start having to guess where your men might be and when they might be there and make them believe they can not make you be one place or another, as a defender (any rod) then you are already winning the battle

much more to be said on this subject if you want to pursue it but for now, lets just think real basic with you playing goalie...there is more to it than this, but to start, lets just divide the goal into 3 equal parts and think that you can have 2 men in front of the goal...those two men if they are standing in the middle of any one of those 3 holes will keep the other player from scoring (most of the time...again, basics here)  so, as a defender, you want to be in 2 of the 3 holes when you want to

you want to spend more time in the hole the person favors than you spend out of it...

develop nerves of steal and try, even if it means getting scored on a bit more in the beginning, to not twitch or jump when a person shoots...there is a time for this but learning NOT to do this is much harder and takes much more discipline than jumping

always watch the ball and not the man

there, sort of random, I have never tried to write this out...if you want to chat some time, I think I can better explain some of these basics...I have had some good sucess working with beginners on this so I think I can help...it is much easier if we were in person but we need to do what we can

best is if you can find a mature player in your area who can work with you every so often one on one while you try and get what you can online

[John M]

WOW thanks for the additional info...and I have also been reading every thread on this board as well as youtube videos over the last 3 months and have seen a scary learning curve due to it....

I live in Savannah and there is no foosball scene here...I know there are some players but there is not a single decent table in a bar....they are all unlevel sticky rods, and crap balls.

I am trying to do something about that though.

[kayko2000]

Nice post BBTuna.  That defense if what I try to teach the guys out here as well.  It's also why I like defending snakes and euro-pins more than I do pullshots.  I still have a tendency to jump a little when I see someone initiating the pull.

I'm not sure about the marbles, but for our tables (which have the 3-piece bearings), my sequence would be:
1. hammer out the pin for the closest-to-handle man that needs changing
2. hammer out the pin for the handle
3. optionally remove the bearings for either near or far side (tho after the closest man is loose, this may not be necessary)
4. pull the whole bar out (with both middle and far men pinned in)
5. take off the near-side bumper
6. replace the man
7. reverse sequence to reassemble

Not sure if it's any faster, but only requires hammering out 2 pins instead of 3.

[ClearScreen]

A few things to add, although nothing too major.  Having done this recently for all 26 men, a few things I learned:

1.  Put a heavy cloth or towel under the rods in case any roll pins shoot out faster than you expect.  This will protect the table from being scratched.  Also, the towel will catch the shavings from the foosball men which occur when knocking out/in roll pins.

2.  Also, have a table or something nearby to put your tools and parts on so you are not laying your hammer on the foosball table surface or its edges.

3.  Some of the men can be very stubborn (hernia-inducing is correct).  You may need to twist and pull a lot to get them to budge off of the rod.  My hands were red and raw by the time I was done.  A little silicone on the rod helped once the men started moving, but not much.  I would certainly recommend gloves for this part of the process.

4.  Use the rod holes to you advantage.  Once the pins are removed, you can often use a pushing/pulling motion with the rod in place inside the bearings to get the men moving.  It is hard to explain on here, but if you pull/push the men against the walls of the table (depending on whether you are removing them/installing them), the leverage from the table will help out.  Just be careful not to slam the end of the rod against the walls of the table.  But once the rod has found its way into the bearing hole, you will see what I mean.

5.  The men are more difficult to move if they are touching each other, so keep them spaced as you remove them.

6.  The roll pins can usually be re-used unless their ends get very flared from the hammering and the punch. 

7.  Finally, if you a have an extra punch, that is great because it will take a major beating during this.  When I was nearly done, the first punch was still usable, but only barely.

Just my two cents from recent experience.

ClearScreen

[kayko2000]

ClearScreen,

It's funny you should mention this:
"You may need to twist and pull a lot to get them to budge off of the rod."

Strangely enough, I hadn't experienced this until today!  Hope it doesn't happen often, because adding on one tight man takes a heck of a lot of effort.  I can't imagine what it'd be like doing multiple men-swaps.

Is it that the foos men's holes are inconsistently sized?

[ClearScreen]

I would expect that the tolerances are very small, but just different enough to make some men come off/go on easier than others.  I know I felt like I had a major work out when I was done.  I was so tired and my hands were so red, I only played for 5 minutes then I wnet to bed.  I finally gave it a good test the next day.

Enjoy!