Author Topic: Struggling with long 2-bar pull  (Read 5823 times)

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Offline kayko2000

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Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« on: June 30, 2010, 01:25:12 PM »
I think I've got my deadman pull on the 3-bar with a little more practice.
But I've been trying to get my long goalie 2-bar pull, and I can't seem to do it past the center point.
Because of the length of the 2-bar rod handle, the mechanics seem different and I can't get the whipping recoil.  So, most of the time, the ball goes wide.

Any pointers?  Set the ball further back?  Use a close-hand grip?  Rotate my body more towards the opponent's goal?

Thanks.
Kevin

Offline Supermanzz

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 04:28:26 PM »
Since the goalie 2-bar is long, you should stand back and should be facing the goal so you have more room for your arm to recoil. Your grip for the pull shot should be the same as when you do it on the 3-bar and i'm guessing you do it close-handed.
If this doesn't help, try experimenting yourself and do whatever works for you. Good luck

Offline kayko2000

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 12:24:02 PM »
thanks! I'll give it a try.

Offline Old Meister

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 04:49:44 PM »
Long pull from in back is a beautiful thing both closed and open hand. The thing about and open palm roll is you can max the shot out. You can compress the rubber and still back angle it with monster power. Why not? I don't go for it much but when I do I like it to SMACK! Closed hand's good too,,,, ;D

Offline alaskan thunder

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 11:59:16 AM »
I used to struggle w/ the same thing. I realized that my shoulders were too open. When I closed my stance (more perpendicular to the table) it helped my stroke a ton. It became much easier to have a fast solid finish.

Offline Gwasshoppa

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 12:05:27 AM »
I make it a little more of a two part shot from the back because the rod flexes so much compared to the front when I do my shot. You can't tell by looking, but in my head I focus on the lateral and then the snap. If I just try to whip it w/o focusing on both parts it's not nearly as consistent or solid.

It also helps to remind myself where the rod stops once in a while, otherwise sometimes I try to go too far and run out of rod... that's always a harmless spray into the wall.

Offline crazy8

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 03:36:40 PM »
After years of fine-tuning - here are my two-cents (someone's getting a great deal).
1) I think this shot (and most all goalie pull shots) should be started at the extreme far wall with the bumper touching (reasons later) just like a front-pull.

2) The shot can easily be hit (even from dead-bar) with the ball set back just slightly, but almost directly under, the rod.  I found this provides more quickness and control - and shoots the ball as hard/fast as a deep set.

3) Know where you will release the ball (between the big-dot and the inside circle - look (stare!) at that spot before each execution.

4) Plant the defensive 3-bar and 5-bar and goalie so that they barely cover the big-dot.  Don't over-defend.

5) For learning purposes- start shooting from close to your releas point: A) shoot from the other-side of the circle; B) then start shooting from the line (of the box); C) then start shooting from the wall.

6) Don't be afraid to repeat Step 5 for a long time - and to wait awhile before andvancing from A to B to C.

7) The shot: Instead of pulling across the table and then hitting the ball, try this (for all pull shots) - A) snap-pull the ball forward; B) lift man only as high as the back of the ball (almost, or even remaining in contact through the stroke); C) bring the man over the center of the ball as soon as possible (work on this for all shots); D) at your strike-mark, brush-back against the pull while following-thru toward the goal-target; E) adjust Step D to properly direct the shot.

8)  Relax - you want to be quick and accurate so loosen-up.

Good luck - Paul


Offline jkhFoos

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 01:49:51 PM »
Paul Crazy8,
There's a method to your madness.  I especially like the literal look at the launch site before the shot.
 See, feel, & trust.   

Offline crazy8

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It's great to be a goalie!
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 01:28:13 PM »
So...once you can hit long from the far-side of the circle  - and hit the same straight from the near-side - and hit the cross-side from the near-side of the circle to the far-hole - and hit the real short sprays to both the short, middle and long holes - and hit the wall- and second-man passes - and learn to do it all again on the push-side...there's not much more to learn than blocking (pull, snake, the kicks and all the sneaky stuff); keeping the ball in your zone (always priority #1); watching for loose trash; and praising your forward when your team wins.  Of course you can always start working on the push- and pull-kicks.

Why is it great to be a goalie?
Because you can abuse both opponents at the same time!

Paul

Offline Pat

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »
I'm starting to learn this shot and have a few questions:

(1) What is the advantage of starting the pull with the bumper against the far wall as opposed to starting with the ball on the white line half way between the wall and the goal?  It seems that the second option has the advantages of a shorter distance to pull before shooting and the option to bank off the far wall.

(2) Is it better to learn the 3 straight shots (near post, middle, far post) and then the sprays or all the near post shots (straight, sprays, and brush) before progressing to the middle and far post shots?

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 04:15:50 AM »
I'm starting to learn this shot and have a few questions:

(1) What is the advantage of starting the pull with the bumper against the far wall as opposed to starting with the ball on the white line half way between the wall and the goal?  It seems that the second option has the advantages of a shorter distance to pull before shooting and the option to bank off the far wall.
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Both sets have specific advantages.. 
A. setting a ball at the wall, or closer to the wall (by this I mean halfway between the wall and the big box white line) allows deeper angles to the near corner, the dead center, and the far corner hole of the goal.  I personally set it at or near the halfway pt between the wall and the box line.
B. setting a ball at the box line obviously gets you much closer to the long hole, or far corner, and also lines up with a nice passing lane to the 3bar... where if they start defending that passing lane, it opens up the opposing zone or combined D.
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at the wall or near wall shooting only makes sense if gkeeper HAS a spray (duhhhh)  and understands (or at least has the feel) the concept of ballweight passing and shooting.  Near wall makes sense, too, if the forward likes to receive shallow brushdown passes to the 3bar at the wall, or a lane pass to the 3bar about an inch off the wall.  Doesn't make much sense if gkeeper sets, then goes into a tic tac.. almost always firing/releasing the ball with a slap or palm roll that's pretty much square.
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at the box line makes sense if you can do a large-angle lane pass or a brushdown to the 3bar at the wall, AND REGULARLY SHOOT A QUICK SQUARE PULL OR PUSH SHOT (distance and timing are similar to a 3bar pull or push shot)
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Going back to a long square 2bar pull: If you need more time to increase the stored/potential energy on the ball (the ball-weight makes it easier to redirect at time of shot or release) then the near or at-wall set gives one time, and also forces a longer region that the opposing forward at the 3bar has to defend.. This is a natural advantage of under-rod (push or pull) shots.. You can vary the release anywhere from the setting/starting point, all the way to the long.
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Tip: Don't practice by setting the ball (near/at-the-wall or at the box line...doesn't matter) and then waiting several seconds each time to shoot. This turns into a time-able and predictable shot (hint: a DUMB*SS type shot).  Set up the ball (you should have the standard 15 seconds re ITSF or USTSA rules) and practice shooting within a second or two of setting.  Most gkeepers (duhhh) can wait after 3 or 4 seconds and shoot a pull or push... but the better ones can shoot at 0.5 secs after set, .75 secs after set, 1 sec.. etc...  They can and will shoot at any time after the set.  At the higher levels of skill, the time a gkeeper waits DOESN'T BREAK DOWN A DEFENSE, especially a zone..  whichever hole one picks to shoot at usually shows and then disappears quickly as the opposing team adjusts and closes that hole.  SO YOU SHOOT WHEN THE HOLE IS FLIPPIN' OPEN! at 0.3 secs or 14.7 secs!
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When Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade attack and see an open shot.. they don't wait 3-4 seconds.. they SHOOT!  When in American football, a star quarterback sees and decides on a receiver, he PASSES! No idiotic waiting.  That's like having an open door and being unable to walk through until the sentry comes and closes it.
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Try it . hand set the ball where you like for a pull or push.. and try shooting within 1 or 2 secs after setting.. The initial results are usually hilarious...  And a lot of prideful gkeepers can't pass this test when challenged...  Set the opposing gkeeper to close the straight and middle and set the opposing 3bar just a tad past the middle dot.  hand set.. count "thousand-and-one" and immediately shoot.  That's what separates better shooting gkeepers from the chaff or riff-raff wannabes.. They can shoot at ABSOLUTELY ANY TIME AFTER THE SET.  Not a rolling pull or push, (a Quickset) mind you.. but instead, a real set/stopped ball.
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Quote from: Pat
(2) Is it better to learn the 3 straight shots (near post, middle, far post) and then the sprays or all the near post shots (straight, sprays, and brush) before progressing to the middle and far post shots?
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Most gkeepers start with whichever release/shot is more natural: straight or "square" shots, versus spray shots. Really depends on which ones you're comfortable with.  I have noted that unless you understand the principle of "ball-weight" passing or shooting, which is prolly why brushpassing was for a long time the "god" pass series... one should stick to square or straight shots until you figure this out.
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Best to start and master straight or spray shooting depending on which one you naturally take to at first.. but definitely a requirement to figure out the other series.. The more weapons you can command and easily control (this means a ton of practice!) The more deadly you are.  NOT one or the other... (sounds like a DUMB*SS type principle) BOTH!  You can certainly use both, so why not have both???  Remember.. there will always be an opponent or team that JUST NATURALLY shuts down either a complete spray series or a complete square series... very frustrating if they lock onto you .. usually 1 or 2 rounds out of the money LOL!
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I've noted that a lot of even experienced gkeepers will square a 2bar pull 70-90% and spray a push from the other side, or vice versa.  This helps any defending team immensely if they can realize this.   AND defending against a gkeeper with total control of straight vs spray, plus quickset tic-tacs of course.. has to be the hardest... A lot of zone D's naturally favor shutting down a straight series from the gkeeper, or a spray series, but not both.  Best gkeeper offense is to have all these at least half-decently perfected and switching to whichever hurts the other team the most.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 04:45:30 AM by foozkillah »

Offline crazy8

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Re: Struggling with long 2-bar pull
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 07:29:10 PM »
One of the biggest advantages of starting a tight against the wall as possible is that you have instant access to a wall pass to the 3-bar.

In singles you can hit the very short slice to the near hole - plus a long slice to the far hole.

The farther you move from the wall the fewer options you have.

Paul