Topic: What ever happened to Warrior tables?

[garabdorje]

What ever happend to Warrior tables?


Searching around for foosball tables on the internet I found good reviews and opinions about Warrior tables, I got very interested and for that price I tought it was a good option. Then I notice the webpage was not updated, the last event posted dates from 2004 and the official forum is full of spam. I wrote an  email asking about the table and the webpage two weeks ago, I havent received an answer.


Strangely they have 2011 copyrights, I wonder if they no longer care about selling tables. I also read they are no longer the IFP official table.


Well to sum I felt I could not trust a company like that so I kept looking for more tables.   


I just wanted to share my experience, I just felt disapointed.

[Nosorog]

I've never played on one but know that some people like them.  They just didn't have the quality of Tornado so the tour went back to Tornado.  Maybe they will try to improve them.  I'd pick one up for cheap.  There's also the new Fireball tables that look fun.  Here's a good article about tables:

http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0

[big al]

i own 2 warrior tables and cant say enough...they're strong and you can pound them as hard as you want...i played on tornado and looks like they match up pretty close. i know everyone has there own opinion but i cant complain..my buddy plays pros and when he comes over the table takes a licking and keeps on ticking..lol!...from what i heard i think they're working on upgrading the table..but who knows....but  i stand behind them 100%..for the price you cant go wrong...plus its easy to get parts...happy foozing!!

[garabdorje]

When did you buy your table? What I liked about Warrior Tables was the 1 goalie configuration and the price. Then I  found Fireball tables, I didn't like the blue field but then after reading several posts and the review on this forum I think that Fireball will be my next table

Also Brad Laurine is a great guy, I wrote an email regarding the difference between the Sport table and the Tour table, we was very helpful. I ended up calling him and we had a great chat. He gave me some tips on how to improve my Shelti's Rock-It table wile I save for a Fireball Tour table. I feel I can trust the fireball team.  They also have an ITSF table, that's trustworthy

[big al]

if you were asking me...i bought them last year in july and the other a little later..i got the red and yellow men and the other table has the blue and red which i prefer..where i live i cant be to picky about the the table i like,being that i live out in the pacific ocean...no dought Brad sound like a up and up guy from all the post ive read..and it sounds like the fireball might be the table for the tour for a long time..thats great. im hoping Brad and his gang will hold a tournament here in the islands soon so i can get a piece of that table..but until then Warrior is the table i play and probably will for a long time..the only problem i have with the Warrior is that the ball just cant seem to stay put in the goal..lol!...hope you find that right table...BIG AL!

[bbtuna]

there is no comparing these tables, Tornado has been making the premire table and only Tournament table for nearly 40 years, Warrior played great but couldn't hold up to the rigors of tournament play and the heavy solid rods took a tool on some arms and I think if it was out an extended period of time, these heavy rods would damage people

the enters Fireball...i now have over 40 hours on the table and I can tell you without a doubt its the best table ever made...I think the fit and finish is better than Tornado and Warrior isn't even in the discussion but even my first generation home model is argueably better than Tornado's coin op T3000...some will argue but let me tell you what you can not argue because it just facts...these things on the Fireball home model and therefore on their coin op too:
* BEARINGS...better made and bigger so it lets the rod through if you want to remove it
* LEGS...substantially better - metal and weight probably 4 times what a Tornado leg weighs and are hollow so they can be filled with sand or lead shot
* FEET...way better than Tornado's comparitively cheap plastic feet...these are metal, very sturdy, and have a rubber bottom with ribbed to set sturdy on any surface
* PLAYERS FOOT...Warrior is at least in the discussion and Tornado made improvements when they redesigned their foot (but didn't go the entire way) but Fireball worked out all the kinks and you get a man that can tic tac as well or better than any table made, it will handle front toes as well or better than any foot on any table, it allows for crisp exact angles every time like the old TS did which means kick shooter and banks are back in the game, it can shoot a straight set shot as good or better than any table, no sacrifice on brush passing, better in my mind than Tornado which was the best, AND last, THE BEST DESIGN FOR A BACKPIN EVER!  Warrior was good, much better than Tornado and I liked Tornado, but it is out of this world on Fireball
* RODS, RODS, RODS...i have saved this for last because it is SOOOO much better...War is a universe apart with heavy solid rods and Tornado, well they are the same right? they are both hollow and both heat treated...NO! not in the same arena...if they were baseball, Fireball rods would be Major League and Tornado would be Little League...no, just kidding, they are more like single A Minor League

when i first opened it up, i had heard so much about the rods my expectations were high and at first they didn't seem special at all, they actually felt stiff at first but that improved with cleaning and silicone.  I thought seems smoother a little but I don't see the big difference but i stuck with and week after week went by and i logged longer hours. 

Things changed as I understood how not to use so much muscle and let the rod do the work.  Every shot of mine is better and not by a small margin.  Now, when I go back to my Tornado, I feel like I am pulling lead through molten rock.  Two nights ago i had company and they wanted to see my foosball room and I stepped up to my Tornado like I have done a thousand times before with company...I stepped up and tried to whack a few real hard to wow them and I actually began to injure myself because the rods were so sluggish.

I literally couldn't wait to get back and sling some stuff around on my Fireball...it actually felt better to let my now injured wrist ride along with the Fireball rods.  You can't get the benifit with one or two sessions or a weekend.  You may see that they are faster in that time but you just can't appreciate how much difference it makes...I can shoot endless pulls and never get tired.  Everythings is smoother, less effort, shots are longer and cleaner.

I could go on and on and I still would not be exagarrating...it sounds like hyperbly but its not...there are other features and parts to Fireball that make it at least as good and in most cases better than the best table EVER made but with these rods, the center of all play on a foosball table, Fireball is for sure the best table out of these 3 tables which makes it better than Tornado, which makes it better than the best made table in the world...I will go further and say, Fireball is not only the best table made in the world it is the best foosball table EVER made

oh, you may have grown up on this or that and you have your emotional favorite but putting emotions aside, there is no table that brings this kind of balance in speed, control, and precision.

Buy Fireball, you will never regret it...

[garabdorje]

bbtuna,

Amazing feedback!!

I was very interested in Fireball tables, now I am really excited!

I'll keep putting money in my piggy bank too buy one by Christmas.

Thanks!

P.D.: By any chance have you played on a Garlando table? I like the euro shot or pin shot style of shooting. I wonder if I could learn to do the Garlando tricks on the Fireball table.

[Anderson]

Okay everybody, I just have to chime in here.

First, I own a Fireball table and I LOVE IT for many reasons.

HOWEVER...

If they had made their ball stickier, I would agree that it's great for front toe shots. It is good, but not the best. If you enjoy euro pin style shots, you need to investigate Bonzini. If money is an issue, well find one used or find an old Rene Pierre for sale. But if you want to experiment with different styles, get a Fireball. I have already played with a Garlando rod on this table. You have options if you are willing to experiment. NO OTHER TABLE gives you those options. You can tinker with the three piece bearing and give yourself a whole lot of possibilities. I'm currently working on installing a 14mm Rene Pierre rod with older Bonzini men that were made shorter. I found 23mm OD 14mm ID nylon oil gaskets that after scraping on sand paper to get to 22mm OD, they fit perfectly inside the three piece bearing in a notch that seems almost perfectly made for it. This has given me the perfect near side bearing. Some think this is impracticable. Why change a perfectly good table? Because I CAN, with EASE. The three piece bearing makes it easy, effortless. It takes seconds. Get a Fireball.

[bbtuna]

well, when i was talking about front pin i was comparing it to Tor and War...there are a bunch of Euro tables that have a lot more ball control...much "stickier" if you will...on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being stickiest the scale would look something like this

10 Bonzini/lehmacher
9 Garlando
7 Warrior (with warrior ball)
6 Fireball
4-5 Tornado

but stickier isn't better, its just stickier...all the euro tables are stickier than the american tables but they are all also terrible with inline shots, they are hard to set up and if you get them set up they are terrible hard to shoot....the ball, the playfield, the large ramps on the side or rear corners all limit how and what you can do

its just an opinion but i think a table is BETTER that allows you to do more things...there is some trade off some place, a table can not both be the stickiest and best in line...super stickie not only make inline shots (pulls, pushes, push/pull kicks) hard but they make shooting a backpin a near impossible task...there is also the issue that most of these talbes don't have counter balanced men which means playing singles is a different animal trying to manage the men falling down

then there are the funky little handles and the telescoping rods which may be safe but they do not preform like you imagine that tables would after 50-60 years of table evolution.  here we are in 2011 and most of the tables in europe either are not level, or they can't make a ball that rolls true round and stays true round or the playfield has funky ramps on the sides or in back that don't allow you to use the entire field

and there is build quality...meaning, a table that can stand up to the serious abuse of unsupervised bar life for years and years....men that can be changed (unlike at least one table I know) but men that don't need to be changed and yet have the design and precision of years of experience and engineering not a table that stays mired in the past without concer for improving play, design, etc.

as i started to say, you can't have everything but IMO its about balancing all these things...a table with precision, a flat playfield, ability to shoot every shot ever designed, a ball that starts and stays round, men designed to last for ever and execute with finesse and power...

yea, you can find tables that allow you more control for a front toe but at what cost...i dont think the trade off is worth the benefit unless of course you want to play 80%-90% with the ball pinned and don't care about how the ball rolls on the table and don't want to shoot inline shots and you like men falling down every time you play singles and you love having to change out an entire rod if a man goes bad and love to pay twice as much for all this then you should for sure buy Bonzini

[garabdorje]

bbtuna,

Interesting... It seems there's only one option here, Fireball.

From what I have read Fireball has the versatility to let you play any style of Foosball, gives you the best quality, durability, performance and for a very good price. That's why I want one, I was just wondering if I was going to be able to make the pin shot and its variations since that's the shoot I feel more comfortable with.

Also Bonzini is way to expensive to be an option and where I live there's no way of getting one used since all of them are on the East Coast and for local pickup only.

[big al]

WOW! WOW! WOW!....i tell you anderson you got me sold!...after hearing all this out of this world feed back on how great the FIREBALL tables are...i tell you i cant wait to get my hands on one...but for me to get one out here in the Paific would cost me an arm and a LEG!..LOL!...thats why i hope Mr. Brad and company hold one of his tours here at Waikaloa or even in Oahu...i know..i know.. wishful thinking....it seems everyone whos played on Fireball all have great reviews...thats great to hear for the sport...keep up on the great promoting on this great table......but until the WARRIOR is the table ill play and practice on...no regrets!!...keep on foozing!!

[Anderson]

BB, I agree with you about inline shots, but it is possible to master inline shots on Bonzini and grippy tables in general. I've been shooting a backpin more and more on Bonzini, and the stickiness has added options to my game. One simply needs to emphasize the forward motion of the ball, be much more deliberate with pulling it forward before following through. It allows extreme walking and stomp fakes and reverses, so I love it. But I do love my Fireball as well. If I want to practice extreme grippy shots, euro pins, etc, I simply throw in a super dirty gummed up ITSF b-ball, and there it is. It would be cool if they designed simple roll-on mats so that I could practice on a linoleum surface like Bonzini. That would allow the grippiest play. Again, all of my points are for playing these styles on my Fireball for practice. I bought a camera today and a tripod so that I can start video taping all of this on my Fireball and I'll have to post some video soon.

To the original poster, I think it is clear that Fireball is your best option. There are a lot of great tables out there, and don't let anyone tell you that one table is better than another. You simply have to play a table before you can take any of that to the bank. BB's explanation about table quality doesn't do enough. One hears complaints about Bonzini, or other French tables, because they are hard to level, or the ball wears and no longer rolls true. Well get a new ball and try to level the table, or get a new surface because it's easy to install, but probably expensive. The style of play can't be substituted for, and if you enjoy that style, Tornado and Fireball simply won't do. Garlando and other tables are ACQUIRED tastes, and they all have their die hard fans. I love the style of play on Bonzini. I learned on hard ball tables first and loved that style until I was exposed to the French tables and that style of play. I've been playing more Tornado lately, and there are things I enjoy doing on that table to. I like Fireball best because I have found that I can mold it to my needs and practice Tornado, Fireball, Garlando, and now Bonzini, maybe not to exact replication, but to the general idea. I was just practicing on my table and I found it so convenient to remove the opposing 5-bar for my 3-man practice. The fact that it costs me little to no time to remove or replace a bar, or to insert things into the bearing to play a different rod, 30 seconds(a few minutes for Bonzini because I have to change the two piece bearing), is why even though I love Bonzini and that style of play far beyond what I will ever have for Fireball, I got the biggest bang for my buck. I can play nearly any style that I want.

[tagger]

I am relatively new to the forum so not an expert on much of anything. I have been searching for a table and came across the Fireball products. I ended up speaking with Brad Laurine who represents Fireball Table soccer. His approach to customers, the time he took to educate a novice such as myself and the passion he has for his product is a major reinforcement to buying Fireball tables. Certainly all the specifications are in favor of Fireball, the few that have experience with Fireball all state that is is probably the best all round table so Tornado watch out, Competition is always healthy.

I will probably end up buying the Fireball just because I feel the customer support that Brad Laurine will provide is amazing and rare to find with any product out there today!
Sorry this is a shameless plug for Brad Laurine but i feel he deserves it!

[Anderson]

I will probably end up buying the Fireball just because I feel the customer support that Brad Laurine will provide is amazing and rare to find with any product out there today!
Sorry this is a shameless plug for Brad Laurine but i feel he deserves it!

He does!

[bbtuna]

tagger, I agree 100%, Brad is a great person and is totally committed to customers but it isn't a corporate value, its just a natural personal value but because he runs the company, it turns into a corporate value

Anderson,
there is a lot of emotion involved with tables...you are a smaller % of players most people have bias toward a table (which means toward the style that table produces) based on what they "grow up on"...once you get used to a certain way, a certain style, making the transition to other tables that play differently

but if a person can take a step back and remove themselves from the emotion and their personal bias's and think about the game and table design holistically and not based on what a person can do now or what they like to do then you can see difference in tables that can be called good and bad

even so, there is nothing good or bad about having preferences to a specific style of play, its like enjoying one kind of music over another and if a person like the limited playing options and obvious strengths of say Bonzini, then more power to them but if a new player is looking to get involved and is asking advice on what table they should buy and they live in the US or UK and not in the rest of Europe then i could never recommend Bonzini

oh, by the way, I have seen Billy P shoot a pull on Bonzini and with a slow careful patient approach Billy could get it set up more or less in the right place and rip a pull that looked like the table was going to break with each shot but it was painful to watch and I think his feelings about it were not positive...it took all of his considerable amazing skill just to pull it off ... that doesn't mean a person should claim that Bonzini does inline shots any more than saying Tornado is good for the Euro piin becasue Fred can shoot it...and its way way easier to do a euro pin on Tor than a pull on Bonzini

i love what you are doing with your Fireball...I have used the Warrior ball on it and it takes control to another level and I am goint to get Bonzini cork and ITSF ball and see how that does..tomorrow (or later today really) I am going to break out some vintage NOS TS balls I have and see what that does...I have done it on Tornado and its a hoot because the ball is so stickie and so dang light

okay, i am headed to bed... more later ...Fireball is the future of foosball and Tornado needs to consider what is coming and if Warrior pulls off what they are planning, there will be a whole new world of foos in the US...3 great tables and a vintage Euro on the side for those who love the french