Author Topic: Difference in technique between push and pull snake  (Read 5113 times)

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Offline jk

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Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« on: December 08, 2011, 06:53:14 PM »
Hi,

I needed some advice regarding perfecting my snake shot. Currently, my snake shot in the push direction is a lot more effective than the one in the pull direction. When I push-snake, I can do it very fast, with a lot of lateral movement without spraying the shot. I also have very good control for the ball under my man when I push-snake. I'm not sure how else to describe it, other than I can 'feel' the ball really well as I'm getting ready to push-snake, so I know exactly where I can shoot it and with how much power.

However, my pull snake is just the complete opposite. Even as I'm getting ready to snake in the pull direction, I don't have a feel for the ball and find it hard to get much lateral movement. Whatever lateral movement I get is pretty slow as well. I've tried pinning the ball a little harder down when pulling but I must be doing something wrong because I occassionally even lose the ball before executing the shot, even though I feel I'm pinning it down quite hard. So clearly I'm doing something wrong.

I've done some reading online and have read that the main difference with the push and pull technique is to choose which side of your inner wrist to use; you use the side closer to your thumb for push and the opposite side for pull. However, even trying to concentrate on this doesn't help. In face my upper arm now hurts (my arm from the shoulder till the elbow) after trying to pull a few times, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong (since it doesn't hurt when I push).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 11:37:32 PM »
I'd suggest being more symmetrical... lean AWAY from the goal you're shooting at..  try to have your arm almost straight down to almost the handle... so it's a pretty equivalent swing to either push or pull side.
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Arm hurts normally on a non-symmetrical pull side snake.. because you have to lift your arm to go pullside in most normal snake strokes, unless you can "telescope" your hand and arm shorter (definitely tough for most humans).  Am familiar with the "edge" grip on the handle you describe... really can lead to probs on the pull side.. as long as you're having to fight your arm physique to go the pull side.  The opposite is true on most push side snakes...you an actually add more weight as you push... since you're going away and the rod is going virtually "down" on the push side stroke.  also usually easier to hit a square push side, since you don't have to fight overpressing down on the handle and at the long, you have just friction and a natural light return motion as your handle point reaches the end of your pushing arm and wrist.
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Another way is to lock the angle of your elbow if you're totally against leaning away for a pendulum style motion on the snake.  then you just swing with the upper arm, with the forearm locked from the elbow down.
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Good luck.

Offline jkhFoos

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 11:51:15 PM »
Just something to experiment with: 1 Seperate your feet & open your stance a little.  this should get your eyes a bit closer to the ball & improve your view/commited stroke even for the push. NO tells! Do reps for the pull side.2 refine matters by useing your right heel as a pivot point & turn your toes to the right. You won't feel as crowded  -rip the pulls! 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 08:37:35 AM by jkhFoos »

Offline Old Meister

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 09:30:20 PM »
'Killah said something that I can relate to, leaning away from where you are going. I love to do a monotonous rock and lean forward more and more so that it seems things are going forward and then do a smooth off speed pull in motion. One thing about the snake is you are making plays off from a patch of skin that moves back and forth with every move. It allows you to make a whip motion if you are in tune and in time with it. Full speed is nice, 3/4 speed kills 'em. You have more control and you can play the defense' reaction time.

Offline natX

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2012, 02:12:07 AM »
I had the same problem. What finally broke it for me was LOTS of reps. I literally stopped practicing my push for a month and only  practiced my pull. I would do 50 pull side a night until I got the feel of it and then bring back the straight and push. 100 pull, 50 push, and 50 straight. It took about two months to get pull side tightened up to the point where I feel comfortable going pull right off the bat. Some nights it's still gimpy for the first half hour. Keep shooting it until it starts to smoke.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 03:31:40 AM »
One quick way to fix a pull or push side on the snake/rollover, if you have a table to practice on,  is to setup a standstill or very minimal rocking motion.  Learning to dribble the ball without moving it is another option.  This will train and allow you to concentrate on that "final" swing or "pitch" as they call it.  At the beginning, you may or may not have problems moving the ball on "pitch" laterally more than a quarter or even an eighth of an inch... but that's the idea.  Shoot 50-100 or so to that problem side from a standstill or hardly rocking set up pin at the center.  Your mind and body memory should learn as you learn to go the maximum lateral distance (to the long or deadbar) repeatedly from a none or hardly rocking set and help you throw the ball sideways. Starting slow won't hurt either.  The rocking motion, even the hard/fast rocking motion is great for a final warmup, but you have to really train your wrist and forearm to put controlling pressure on the ball, and standstill allows you to separate you final firing sequence.
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Remember that this is a drill, however.  You should repeat this drill, ad nauseaum even, during practice. And if you normally rock the ball side-to-side.. that's still what you should warm up with the right before a match.

Offline Pat

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 05:06:08 PM »
The pull is also my weak side and I tried shooting it without rocking at training this evening.  It was definitely more difficult than with the rock and it gave me a good feeling of exactly how much downward pressure had to be applied when pulling.  Shooting with the rock felt much smoother after practicing a while with a static start.

The instructor also noticed that I'm slower hitting an open hole on the pull side.  It seems that I rock an extra time between noticing the hole and beginning the pull.  He suggested practicing the static shot with the toe centered on the ball as well as off-center.  In addition, he suggested recording mp3s of myself saying "push", "pull", and "center" with different delays and playing them back in random order.  This should train a smooth take-off when the shooting side is not predetermined.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 02:31:25 AM »
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The instructor also noticed that I'm slower hitting an open hole on the pull side.  It seems that I rock an extra time between noticing the hole and beginning the pull. 

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The "instructor," or whomever is helping spot you in practice, hit it right on the head.  That last hitch or "double-take" right before the shot is one of most common problems with mirroring a 3/4 or long on either side.   It can become a very telling "tell" to the defending goalkeeper,  and obviously highlights the shooter's anxiety to hit the hole instantly, which, from a considerable back n forth rocking pin like most rollover shooters have, is automatically out of rhythm.   Most override the loss of rhythm by pinning the ball harder.  This can lead to other problems, like LOSING the pin and control of the ball, as well as make your arms ache in the rocking and firing part on one or both sides.   
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Quote from: Pat
He suggested practicing the static shot with the toe centered on the ball as well as off-center.  In addition, he suggested recording mp3s of myself saying "push", "pull", and "center" with different delays and playing them back in random order.  This should train a smooth take-off when the shooting side is not predetermined.
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Not a bad idea at all. Another is "Mind over Motion,"  where you force or discipline yourself to wait until your rocking motion is ready to come to that pull side, even though that near hole suddenly opens up like a huge cavern, LOL!  Pressing the "Abort! Abort! Eject-button" is rarely helpful in becoming smooth, Smooth....

Offline Pat

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 06:35:59 PM »
I've practiced shooting after rocking at a constant frequency and find am finding it difficult to get rid of the hitch completely, although it has diminished a bit.  I've tried the rocking at various constant frequencies and it seems that I have more control when doing a slow rock but a "rev up" is more noticeable.

I've had a look at some videos of the pros and it seems that they vary their rocking frequency.  Is this an alternative method for hiding tells?  It seems to be easier (especially in a high pressure situation) than rocking at exactly the same frequency.


Offline foozkillah

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Re: Difference in technique between push and pull snake
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 08:29:55 AM »
I've practiced shooting after rocking at a constant frequency and find am finding it difficult to get rid of the hitch completely, although it has diminished a bit.  I've tried the rocking at various constant frequencies and it seems that I have more control when doing a slow rock but a "rev up" is more noticeable.

I've had a look at some videos of the pros and it seems that they vary their rocking frequency.  Is this an alternative method for hiding tells?  It seems to be easier (especially in a high pressure situation) than rocking at exactly the same frequency.
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Ditto, I've seen the very same thing.. from most good rollover shooters...  if you can learn to shoot from any of several frequencies, then that's definitely one way to prevent a good gkeeper from "timing" and matching their overall shuffle to a steady motion.  The more different rocking rates you can reliably shoot from, whether it be a near-standstill to a high shuffle rocking motion, then it's harder for the gkeeper to do what I believe they call "predictive" D.. They match their D to the attacking 3bar's overall motion, then start baiting with a bigger hole left open for longer on a middle, long or short.. and then racing to close that hole.  And yes, can't remember seeing how many rollover shooters I've seen over the years who keep falling for that baited hole.