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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: bmtran on July 29, 2008, 10:45:57 AM
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So I've never had a table at home, but craigslist is absolutely flooded with tables that people want to sell. The cheapest ones are random brands that I've never heard of, but the tables look like they're in good condition. My question is is it worth it to buy a table that's not the same kind that i normally play on or will the play style differ too much to where things I practice on the cheap table won't transfer to Tornado?
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Nothing plays exactly like a Tornado....I picked up a brown marble coin-op from our local vendor for $275.00. It had some missing laminate pieces but i cut diamond plate and encased that bad boy and it looks SWEET!! do some looking before you buy, Tornado Coin-Op's can be picked up for good money these days.
Good Luck Hunting!
Snake
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I've been looking for a table for quite some time now, and just can't seem to come up with anything decent. Craigslist is great, but really only good if you live near a greater metropolitan area. Unfortunately trying to play foosball in rural america is harder than it might sound. I guess next time I visit friends in the StL area I should look around on craigslist for a table as well. It's that or drop almost a grand on getting an ok new table shipped here.
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I wouldn't mess around with the cheeper tables, craigslist is full of sportscraft, and harvard tables, don't buy them! the reason everyone is selling them is because their not good tables and sports authority and dicks sell them for like 4-5 hundred dollars, its a complete rip off. My advice would be to just be patient. I just got a dynamo gold medal table of of craigslist in near perfect shape for $75, you can look through my posts to see the pics. Tornado is the most popular table but don't limit your self to just tornado, shelti makes a great table and i love my new dynamo... just keep an eye out for a good name brand table and never give the guy what he's askin for lol, if tonado is what you crave, a sportscraft will not fill the void.
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So I was checking around craigslist, and I found a Storm II table with some slight wear from use for sale for $400, I'll be getting some pictures once the current owner comes back from the UK. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for? He also said he'd be willing to ship it. Shipment of course costs about $150-$200 for something of that size. Has anybody shipped a product or received something this size before? Obviously the legs and rods would have to come off for shipment. Does this pose any threat to the integrity of the table?
I want to make sure that what I receive is what I pay for, and have little experience in actual table re-construction. I've read posts on the maintenance of rods/playing surfaces, so I'm not so concerned in this matter once I get the table put together.
I wouldn't say that I really crave a tornado table either, maybe I'll look into some of the used Shelti or Dynamo models to kind of get a grasp for the price vs. quality comparison.
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you want to look for a good shape Tornado Brown Marble coin-op for $450-$550...it would be much better than even a brand new Cyclone...if you can spend $750-$950 you can get a Grey Marble (the newest model before the full metal jacket ones out now)
several people on this board bought down and regretted it later...you can still learn on the Cyclone but for nearly the same money you can get a coin-op which are bascially indistructable and should last you your entire life or until you choose to turn it over
the key is to be prepared to strike the deal when you find it and then wait until it comes a long, it is there - I recently made a BIG mistake letting the perfect Brown Marble get away local (even though I already have a coin-op like Tornado) because I messed up the timing on the eBay bid...I could have had it, and it was in pretty good shape for a Brown Marble (all of them would be at least 10-12 years old), for under $300...I cried myself to sleep for a week...I knew better, I was ready, and I blew the time on the close of the bidding...i want to shot myself even now as I relive this horrible tail
I digress...lots of posts here if you search on buying a table...key is, set you mind like a flint for a coin-op, get your funds ready, search and be patient until you see what you want and then ACT right away...
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So, I've now found a Storm II table which I could pick up near the Chicago area for about $400, but also did a little searching for cities that were of similar distance away on Craiglist, and tracked down a used T-2000 for $600. Is the extra $200 worth the weight, bearing, and rod differences. What are the subtle differences that would make the latter a better table to play on on a regular basis? This is one of the brown marble coin ops, I guess people have found them for cheaper... but I can't really even find the tournament style tables anywhere.
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if it is good shape scoop it up right away. offer 450 and say there is other tables comparable selling for that but if he won't budge then pay 600. i have gone into stores and played on new storm II's and even when the rod's and bearings are new they feel like crap. i woudn't buy a storm II, it would break with enough use. if your not planning on playing very often, like once a week or twice a month then maybe thats all you need, but either way the resale of you T-2000 wont drop down and the resale of your storm will go way down. the brown marble was made VERY sturdy and won't ever break, if its in good shape buy it.
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That's what I was thinking... now I just need a truck :(
Well I just looked into how much it would be to just rent a u-haul cargo truck and that would cost me about $300, I could just buy a table on ebay and have it shipped for less than that.
I also wanted to confirm with somebody who has more knowledge of Tornado tables that this is indeed the 'recommended' table model.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/syronis/7-28-08051.jpg
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that link won't work for me... it takes me to gmail, i signed in and it didn't do anything either..
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That was idiotic, I didn't even look to see where the link went to. I saved the photo and uploaded it to my old photobucket, it should work fine now.
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ya its a cherrywood tornado t-2000, a few years old, some guys will give you the exact year but either way the answer will be that its a great table. It is a much older model though, it has the lighter coloured playing surface, and the ball changed when they changed that surface too. but the ball changed so that the new surface played like the old one so it is great, minimal changes anyway, plus that cabinet is built better than the new ones that are manufactured in china. it is a good table, one that I would buy if it was near me.
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i own the cheery T-2000 and for $600 it is a really good deal assuming it doesn't need major repair
is it the coin-op or split top home model (same exact as coin-op just missing coin-op mechanism and coin box)
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okay, I checked out the photo...$600 if the table is in as good a shape as that picture shows would be very near a steal
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yes that is the right model, ask if it has any bad rod, agree to the deal (he isn't likely to sell it for less than $600 and you would be pushing to ask for much less)
after that, tell him you need to find transportation to move it...see if the seller has any ideas and if not, tell him you will get him the money as you agreed and you will need a little time to find truck
don't rent that far away, as you discovered way toooo much money...you just need to work your friend/relative list...there has to be someone or someone on this borad who knows someone who has a truck who lives close enough and will help
go get it
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Thanks for the input. I just need to find a way to pick it up now. The guy selling it offered to help me load it up... The biggest problem is, that I don't own a truck!!! I'm pretty new here in this town as well, so I don't have many friends, and they don't drive trucks either!! I looked into a one day truck rental and it would cost me nearly $300 just to pick up the table. I'm really at a loss of what to do unfortunately. I guess I'll ask my friend whose boyfriend drives a truck..... it would be quite a stretch though.
Yeah, I'm probably a couple days away from making up my mind, I don't like to rush into spending that kind of money, but it's an investment that would last me years to come. Does anyone know the width of the table with rods extended? Can you fit it in the back of a jeep or explorer or would it scrape or bend in any way?
Well, at least I know that the tables are out there to find, and I'll keep my eyes peeled for similar tables if this one falls through. Thanks for all the input BBTuna and Will, it's been a great help... now I just need to practice practice practice, and then try to make a showing whenever I decide to hit up a tournament. (probably won't be until Missouri State)
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how far away is the table...you could go to a car rental place and rent a big SUV with unlimited mileage and depending on how far it might work financially
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Thanks, that might be a good call. I have a friend who lives in Des Moines, so if I take a one day car rental it would be like $90. Take into account the visiting a friend, and some possible bar foos.... it might be worth it regardless.
The more I think about it, the more I want to do it. I'll probably make up my mind tomorrow when I don't have so many beers in me. It would still be a good conditions tournament coin-op for $700 plus gas. For me it's probably worth the extra few bucks to see a friend, and get a table.
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So y'all are saying it's not worth it to get a brand new coin-op T-2000 or one of those "used once at a tournament" dealies?
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if you can get a brand new coin op go for it, cant go wrong. used once at tournament now your gonna be getting warrior, cause Mary moore switched her whole tour to warrior, that might be better anyway, although i would wait to see if and when the coin op becomes available. either way i'm sure you can end up with a great table. warrior and tornado are VERY similar, despite some reviews saying otherwise, if you compare the tables to anything else on the market they are pretty much the same. if i had no cost holding me back i would go with a new coin op tornado for sure right now. that might change if warrior gets better/develops something that isn't a home model table.
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Sy where are you at? I see you have mentioned Missouri State.. I live in Missouri and i am seeing alot of used coin-ops on the craigs list. St.Louis and Kansas City have several listed. I am contemplating not going to Missouri State due to new exposure of the Warrior Table..I am not good with change and everything i have learned over the last 6 years has been on Tornado..
When i hear you can't hit dead bar pull shots on Warrior tables that turned me off to the tournament.
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if you can afford getting a newer Grey Marble or better yet a F5 metal wraped coin-op then it is a great move...usually people have real limited budgets and they aren't committed tourny players and so we give advice on next best choice - in this case Syronis is sort of falling into a good in between deal
but, if you can get a new/tournament used Grey Marble or F5 then that is the most preferred thing until a Warrior tournament/coin-op (with bugs worked out) table comes out and I am thinking that will be a year
and it was shown at the last tournament that the transition from Tor to War is almost non-existent
I think the transition will be even less when War balls are available for purchase so you can practice on them on your Tor...I bought some dynamo yellow balls which I think play almost the same...I hope to be able to compare tonight to see if there is any difference since I have a friend with a War ball who I hope to see tonight and we will have that on a Grey Marble coin-op
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Sy where are you at? I see you have mentioned Missouri State.. I live in Missouri and i am seeing alot of used coin-ops on the craigs list. St.Louis and Kansas City have several listed. I am contemplating not going to Missouri State due to new exposure of the Warrior Table..I am not good with change and everything i have learned over the last 6 years has been on Tornado..
When i hear you can't hit dead bar pull shots on Warrior tables that turned me off to the tournament.
I'm a former Missourian, I now live in Macomb, IL. It's a small college town. What I did was did some searching on Craigslist for Chicago, Des Moines, and St. Louis. They are all comparable distances from where I currently live (about 3-3 1/2 hour drive). I'll look at Craigslist again, but most of what I saw in STL area was two coin ops, one without pictures and one that the seller said had some obvious damage.
I wouldn't be discouraged that you can't hit a dead bar, you'll just have to shorten up the pull shot a bit and try to figure out what works I guess. One of the funniest complaints I read about the warrior table was that the goalie overshoots the goal. Well, duh.... every single goalie table I've ever played on the goalie will overshoot the goal, playing the goalie rod becomes more about muscle memory and knowing where the goal is than just throwing the rod.
Yeah, I'm going to try to start going to tournaments, probably starting with Missouri State. Other than that I'll probably try to play Iowa and Illinois as well when they have the larger tournaments. It will be interesting to see where I fall in the beginner brackets, I haven't played a competitive foosball game since I was 18, and haven't even touched a foosball table in like 10 months. Which is yet another reason why I'm dying to get a table in my house.
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the deadbar thing is totally overrated -
First - it can be hit, just not as easily/often
it is literally only 3/16 inch different which is literally this much | |
if your shot is accurate enough that this is a big deal, then you should be good enough to change your stroke in less than 50 shots (probably less than 20)
Second - the actual "need" to shoot deadbar is so small it shouldn't even factor into a game...when do you absolutely "need" to shoot deadbar...you can have the very best pull in the world and never be able to shoot deadman...now you probably will for show or fun but actually trying to shoot deadman in a tournament is a silly notion even if someone is posting you up
if they post you up, they have to be dead on the post when you shoot to stop you..if they come off the wall, even the smallest amount, lets say | | this much (which only requires the smallest movement or bounce off the wall) then you can still smoke a squared off or cutback pull
and, if the defense is so paranoid of your long they are trying to post a guy deadman, the goalie is left to cover the entire rest of the goal which for a good pull shooter should be like shooting ducks in a pond
I was taught early to never practice deadman...we practice starting with putting 3 fingers between the bumper and wall so you are 3 fingers away from a deadman post...when you can do that 19 out of 20 times in a row, no problem, move down to 2 fingers...when you can do 18 or 19 out of 20 time in and time out move to 1.5 fingers then when you can do 18/20 every time move to one finger and when you can do that 18/20 times in a row every time by then you will have a smoking good pull shot people are afraid of
at 1 1/2 fingers start stacking the goalie right behind the 2 man so you can see that you are sqauring the shot off or cutting it back
practice each stage rolling and setting the ball up and learn to shoot each position from a stand still first but also from a roll and from various ball positions (so the ball doesn't have to line up under your bar exactly right each time to still be effective)
when you get to two fingers, start practicing straights, slices, and various splits
by the time you get to one finger you will have a super good pull...in the end, when you want to push it the final bit, move the man to 1/2 finger and when you can do this 18 or 19 out of 20 every time you will have one of the best pulls in the nation without ever having practiced deadman
I was taught early and still believe, if you can do the 1 finger or 1/2 finger every time when you get into intense games your adreneline will carry your stroke that little bit more...so, we never tried to shoot deadman but if it happens it happens
and last, we were taught it is better to shoot a bad shot on goal than to smoke something into the wall...the first goal is on goal with every shot every time and then you build it to be more accurate and versitle as you go...practicing for deadman makes you hit the wall a lot more often....if you work inside to the out while developing your stroke, you will develop a habit of on goal every time
similiar with rollover or any shot though with the roller you might start at 2 fingers and work your way out from their
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I actually will take that into consideration when I start to fine tune my game. I think tha't's some really good advice, because you're teaching people through progression. You don't just throw the deadman up and say, "ok hit it". If you do that you'll spend hours discouraged and annoyed at your shot.
I started playing foosball as almost a purely defensive player, I picked up on it really quick, but since I've played mostly by myself for the last couple years my skills have completely deteriorated. That being said, I'm going to use your advice and practice my offense in the manner in which you've explained. Sounds sound.
I'm making arrangements to pick up the table sometime next week. Thanks for all your input! If anybody on this board lives in the Des Moines area, you should come stomp me in some foos.
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Ok Tuna I see your point on the deadbar issue. Now go and tell Kent Rhodes that!! I do not specifically shoot dead bar pull shots exclusively BUT it is in my arsenal!! I would much prefer a short square pull. Tuna i know where your located and who you play with on a regular basis..how are Traynor and the boys up north? I really want to get up there and hit a thursday nite with you fellas..Thursday is not a good nite for me to get away from the lake during the week. Is Chris Dubes still running the sunday no-pro tourney at Pete's Inn?
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Where do you guys usually play at? I know you said you're from Missouri Snake Eyes, what area?
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Lake of the Ozarks. Osage Beach is where most of the tables are. We try and hold a every Friday DYP depending on how many players show. Sometimes we get 8-10 and on occasion 14-16. Woody's Sports bar is the location. If you are ever in the area give me a shout my number is (573) 317-7447.
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Little bit far, but if I'm ever down in the ozarks I'll make sure to post it here. I used to live up in Kirksville, it's NE Missouri. There was only one table there, coincidentally enough also at a bar called Woody's. Now I live about 2 hours east of there in Illinois. Closest place where I can probably find some foos is the quad cities. There's got to be some foosin up there somewhere, it's about an hour from me.
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there is definately foos in the Quad cities...I have seen posts about it but I can't remember if it was here or on the other board...do some searching and you will find something one place or the other
i just thought you also might find some stuff on Netfoos...tons and tons of DYPs are using it now, it is a good place to find out what is going on locally
http://www.netfoos.com/accounts/stats.html
i will write more later, gotta run
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Syronis, I think that Thomas Rios is from the Quad cities area and could probably hook you up. I don't know if he posts here but I know he reads the other board so you could try there too. Also, I don't know if you are anywhere near Charleston Ill, but they have big tourneys regularly, you can find some info about them in the forums at foosworld.com, I believe.
one idea that may work for you on transporting a table is when you find a table you like then check out the rental places where you are picking the table up, not where you are starting from, because you are deadheading one way. Budget, Avis, etc. all have one-way rentals. So you can drive to the table's locale with a friend in a nice economy car (or motorcycle) that gets great mileage and then rent the SUV/Cargo Van/Truck of your choice there and only pay to drive it back to your area (your friend follows in the car, of course) and turn it in after you've unloaded at your house. That could save you some bucks both in gas and in rental fees.
Or, you could wait until MO State and then purchase a warrior table there, it will probably be around the same price and put you on track for practicing for the IFP tourney circuit.
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Yeah, I saw Thomas Rios listed on Foozen website, which is for Iowa Foosers. I've considered the one way rental, but I'd probably have to pay for my friends gas there and back, after that's a factor, I think it'll be cheaper to 1 day enterprise cargo truck it.
I've thought about waiting for MO State, but I am so out of practice that I really should get a table, or I'll be TERRIBLY out of practice for MO State, more so than I will be already. I also wouldn't mind having a tornado and a warrior table in my possession. That'd be pretty cool, my roomate would probably think I was nuts. Which is fine, because he's crazy.
What is the progression of the Tornado tournament table. I know that the F5 is the newest, Gray marble.... but what comes before those?
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hey Syronis, sent PM
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Yeah, I saw it. I pretty much committed to buy the table from this guy in Des Moines. If for some reason he sends me an email back saying he sold it, then I'll surely send you a message back.
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syronis-good choice, you won't be disappointed
snake-eyes - I don't think Dube is doing the Sunday thing any more...weekly Thurs DYP at Sharks is Open one week and No-Pro the next - they have been doing really well (for KC) this year since moving to Sharks...they average 6 to 8 teams (8 the last 3 weeks in a row)
Kent only comes out every other week and I have only see him 2 this year because I have only been to 3 draws since Oct 2007 (most of which was intentional)
I see and play with the main players often outside and that is Chris Traynor, Steve Tran, Tom Kost, etc ... Matter of fact Chris asked me about MO States last night and he wants to hook up and I said yes...our games complement well...if we get in sync and do our thing, I think we will do well
whats your name, i will tell them all you said hey...I won't see Kent or Dube but I will see most of the other regulars tonight at a foosdrinkfest...by the way, Joe Rhodes, who has only been out 2 or 3 times in the last year and a half came out last night - he didn't make many more draws the year and a half before that...for the first time, I could see visible signs of his MASSIVE skills erroding...it is a dirty rotten shame that he can't pursue foos full time, he would be a top 5 player in the world if he could/would commit himself - even now
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Ok saw this table on Ebay, was thinking about buying it because of the moderate price. Seeing as I ran into troubles using craigs list and picking up a table... due to my credit history and lack of an open line of credit. Anyway long story made short... I was going to buy a table, but couldn't get it because I didn't have a way to pick it up in the end. This table is a T-2000, but not a Coin-Op. Is there a large weight difference, or any difference in the rods? I really just wanted an 'expert' opinion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300253604749&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
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the only difference PERIOD is the coin-op mechanism and the coin box, and removable ball return - so just what it takes to make it a coin op...same base model, split top and all, just drill for coin-op associated changes...some say this equates out to 25 pounds but I think that is on the high side
anyway, playability difference is not enough to measure and you can replace the weight easy enough with sand or lead (which I recommend anyway)
However, this brings us to this table...it is a Brown Marble the oldest edition you can buy, I love the BrMbl but $600 is about $200 higher than the coin-op model BrMbl is currently selling for
the coin-op is worth more than the non coin-op (all things being equal) because it can be put in a retail setting and sold and it is the slightest bit heavier
I don't see how this is going to help you since it is so far away...you would need to have this person pack and ship and who knows how much that will be $150-$250 depending on what is need to pack it
so, you are into the $800 plus range to a Brwn Marble which is more than twice what it should cost
last thought...this does look like it is in good shape and if this person is the original owner and really only put a couple hours on the table, we may be looking at a like new, mint condition BrnMrbl HOWEVER
BLING BLING BLING...this does NOT look like a split top table so it is not the T2000 homemodel that I know
maybe BrnMrbl was different but the Blonde, Cherry, and 3 different Greys all had a T2000 model split top without the coin mech...I can't say that for certain with the Brwn but I am guessing so...
KEEP LOOKING...if you are willing to spend $800-$1000 save your coin and by a tournament used later model Grey Marble from Charles McIntosh...should be able to get them for about 1100 maybe a little less considering the market now adays - if you go that route, make sure you get the new upgrade kit as part of the deal
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s this cherry wood?
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Thanks BB for all of your input when I have a question about a table. I would have bought that cherry coin op from Des Moines, but I just couldn't find the transportation necessary to move a table. It was a big let down to me for sure, and was probably why I disappeared from the boards for a week or two. I'm still really wanting to buy a table, shipping is the biggest problem. I even have the money to buy a newer model and have it shipped, it's just a matter of "is it worth it, or not".
Will, that's definitely a cherry wood.
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Will,
Yea, that is cheery, that is the table I have
Syronis,
no biggie on the table, no one here thinks of you one way or the other good or bad if you do or don't have a table so, No Worries Mate
"is it worth it" well, that is entirely up to you...do you have the money, do you have the desire...only you can decide that
we often talk about Brwn Mrbls on here because people have limited budgets or whatever reason don't want to spend the money on a newer table
however, if you can spend the money, the late model grey marbles were a good table and if you can ensure you get the upgrade kit as part of the deal, then all the better
I am sure Charles McIntosh help you with all those details and he is the source for tournament used Tornado, he is totally 100% honest, and he is a reliable man of his word from my experience
I would be trying to get one of the tables from this years worlds which I assume he will end up with and they should include the upgrade kit
but, it is up to you if you want to spend the money, for me, when I bought my table, I bought it brand new, not even tournament used...now that is dumb by the way but I know more now than I did then but I don't regret a penny but I am a foosball freak
so, go slow, be patient, it will all come together...once you get the table, unless you want to change to Warrior or something else for fun, if you buy a coin-op and you take even minimal care of it, it will be the last table you ever have to buy
i used to play on a 12-15 year old brwn mrbl sitting in a bar with no care except what we gave it once a week on Fridays and it is still up and running and good for another 10 years with basic maintenance, that table in your house would last your entire life-time for sure
dang, I have still have a tournament used Brown Top TS that I bought in 1981 and it isn't half as well built as a Tornado
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should I buy it? it looks like its in good shape, whats the most i should pay for it?