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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: the spray on January 30, 2009, 02:42:57 AM
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All the respect for what he's accomplished but WHY?
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He said it was because his Pull Shot was too slow.
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because it worked and it wasn't made illegal - the rest is history and now it is even being done in Europe on the "other" tables
I assume you played back in the day and are now just getting back into things or are you just hanging on to your bias and bitterness?
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Just MHO, but I have been playing for 35 years, and have shot a pull since I started playing. What I am running into is old body break down. To many miles, and to much hard work. I can do my pull shot effectively for part of a weekend, but there comes a point that I loose my consistancy. I have been working on the rollover. What I am finding is that it takes a lot of practice to be acurate and consistant with this shot, but it does not take the physical toll on the arm that the pull shot does. I played at Bart-O last year and decided to shoot a push-kick instead of the pull as my primary shot, and was able to play at a high level for the whole weekend. To me adding the rollover will give me another option, and help me last the weekend at big tournaments. I think that is probably the biggest reason Terry went to it exclusively. The other thing is, you can't deny the results.
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your arm gives out on a pull and not on a push-kick :-\ weird :o
Terry was young enough when he started and the shot was flashy and new I doubt fatigue played into his decision
you are the only person in the world doing the shot and everyone is in awe and you are kicking collective butt, what is there to figure out...pretty simple math
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I sure could have had a lot of fun if I knew how to do the rollover back in 1977 at the Super Singles. I would have done so with no guilt what so ever,,,
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:'(
:'(
:'(
Change with the times or GTFO. Did you complain when they started using a set pull in the '70's?
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Terry Moore happened to be the first major player to understand and select a main offensive shot taking advantage of the moment of the metal rods, utilizing more power and speed without loss of target control. The same way Hans Friedrich Kircher did when he couldn't shoot with his hand after his injury.
It's just another logical progression in the game, utilizing spin and physics. Pretty much the same progression as when the pull shot was first heavily utilized. Unless you believe that they were doing stroke pulls and pushes, instead of just kicks when foosball tables first appeared. The same probably applies to hockey, and to pitching in baseball. It never ruined the game, but instead enhanced it. It allows those who never figured out the proper nonrecoil pull and thereby damaged their musculature, nerves and tendons, to continue playing for years, without loss of accuracy or power. And their sons AND DAUGHTERS who won't have to go through neanderthal pain and hardship to get good at their parents' sport.
It only ruins those who never respected progress or new techniques and who still dream of going back to their fantasy world for a perpetual second chance. Same guys who keep thinking the championship NFL team of their childhoods 30 years ago should survive a 16game season today against modern teams and still win out. Most well-adjusted older players who still have the competitive fire enjoy the newness of learning another shot like the rollover, which has evolved into its own series. And enjoy learning how to block another deadly option, like learning to hit or pitch curve balls in the American League after years of fastball variants in the National League, or vice versa.
Even real field soccer now allows vulcanized or grip striping on strikers' shoes, which allows previously impossible curved and sliding strikes that were unthinkable a couple of decades back. Customized or standardized rubber snap-on booties or wraps for selected foosball figures may be the next technological thing coming. We could call them fbooties or ftoes.
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And I don't know about the rest of you, but I have great and awesome friends whom I used to play years with. I KNOW they loved and lived foosball as much as I did, if not more.
But so many fell to arthritic or ruined wrists, elbows and shoulders, ... bad backs too. Pain that might have started with old school caveman power foosball, or was at the very least completely aggravated by it. They can't play anymore... they didn't have a rollover to go to early enough. And you can still see it in their eyes when you talk about foosing... something they always loved that they just can't do anymore...
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Did you every try shooting the rollover like this kid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUz6jhTUJls
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interesting but that is as much a story about defensive abilities of the two goalies
i think the only fair way to do that would be to have a top flight goalie play defense agains both
give them each 10 shots in a row
if the goalie blocks the ball but it bounces back to the 3 bar (without going behind the 3 bar) then that shot should not count as one of the 10..3 bar gets a nother crack at it
I would do 5 rounds of 10 shots each...same goalie for both or if you could, change goalies every completed round of 10
then, maybe you could say it was one shot against another
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Maybe you guys see it all since you are blessed with active foosball venues near you and what I saw as a novel approach is more commonplace than I knew. What I was referring to was the method of shooting the rollover from the far side rather than from the middle. I had to try it out, very interesting but is going to take some work. Going deadman from a static start at the other extreme,,, have you known anyone to do this?
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Yeah that dude does shoot a crazy snake. I guess you can be proficient at anything if you practice enough...
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Here's what Terry himself wrote about that issue:
http://clubfoos.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=96
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Just curious OM, how is the long snake working out for you?
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I won't lie to you, it's awkward. I seem to hit it OK when I try less than when I try more power. The timing and speed between the toss and stroke, going that long,is something good for me to delve into. It can only help my game. One thing that I really like about setting up so far over, so that there is only room for a half rock from the center of the ball, is that the straight is even more a vulnerability for the goalie. It is set up even farther over than the pull position when the man is tight against the ball and yet the straight can still be hit from there. This means if you can hit that then the goalie has to open up more and then things get easier. I find it easier to do the pull side but I will work on the push also, like the kid in the video. So SJ, are you trying it too or do you use it? If so what do think about it?
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Actually, I´m the "kid" from the Video :)
So far, I know only 3 people who are shooting this as a main shot.
My doubles partner came up with it first. You see him enter the vid for a handclap at 18 seconds I think. I was shooting snake from the middle at that time. But I´ve always been a push person, so I never figured out how to shoot a good Pullside (you can ask Billy about it, he makes fun of my pullside at every opportunity he gets). So I played around with the long snake. I was into it before I could even shoot at 3/4 of the goal.
The long shot wasn´t what made me stick to this shot at once. Like you also figured out quite fast, is that the straight is the killer option. It´s the fastest, and yet easiest shot to execute on a foosball table. And you can hit it deadbar 100% of the time. And it´s the only shot you can hit deadbar on a Lehmacher constantly, something that most goalies don´t even know. Even better, is that the hole is really easy to see because it´s on your side. Most goalies guard it most of the time when defending this shot. By this, the rest of the goal get´s really huge.
I also added a John Wayne, a way to hit the straight straight or at an angle without moving the ball and some kind of dink.
I have the most problems with shooting a long really square, as you can see in the video. I´m now shooting one buffer holes quite constantly, but I´d like to get to one finger. But most of the time I´m using a spray to the corner like the pullshooters, cause most people won´t use a reverse D because it´s too easy to angle the ball in between from this setup.
If you practice on a Tornado it´s probably a little bit harder to start with, but it´s possible.
Just practice up :)
Greets,
Jonny
P.S.: Tim and I didn´t really want to compare snake vs. pull. But he was constantly making fun of my shot, so I had to call him out.
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This is too cool! I mean that! I could see it all over your face that you were in a good place and that other guy was in trouble. And I really like how you worked it out. After watching it I saw how it could be a real effective approach. I actually do favor the push but when I tried both the push and pull the pull somehow seemed easier to do the long but I will learn both, it's just how I'm built. And yes I found that the long tended to spray a bit. I did notice though that if you had a somewhat good long that your opponent would be in serious trouble. I appreciate the pointers and I will work on it. But I really would like you to know how much I enjoyed watching you and want to tell you that you got something going on Johnny! I bet I hear more about you in the future. Thanks for the response. :D
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Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
Jonny
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No problem blockinging the snake but I SUCK shooting it. Seems hard to start with the wrist!?
Just curious OM, how is the long snake working out for you?
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Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
Jonny
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oyeh!!!
He said it was because his Pull Shot was too slow.
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OK blocking it SUCK shooting it. Feels odd starting from the wrist.
I won't lie to you, it's awkward. I seem to hit it OK when I try less than when I try more power. The timing and speed between the toss and stroke, going that long,is something good for me to delve into. It can only help my game. One thing that I really like about setting up so far over, so that there is only room for a half rock from the center of the ball, is that the straight is even more a vulnerability for the goalie. It is set up even farther over than the pull position when the man is tight against the ball and yet the straight can still be hit from there. This means if you can hit that then the goalie has to open up more and then things get easier. I find it easier to do the pull side but I will work on the push also, like the kid in the video. So SJ, are you trying it too or do you use it? If so what do think about it?
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yeah when i was leaving the game he was just another San Diegoite we used to beat on!!!
because it worked and it wasn't made illegal - the rest is history and now it is even being done in Europe on the "other" tables
I assume you played back in the day and are now just getting back into things or are you just hanging on to your bias and bitterness?
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this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO
:'(
:'(
:'(
Change with the times or GTFO. Did you complain when they started using a set pull in the '70's?
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rollover causes pain in the back and wrist too but know what you mean
And I don't know about the rest of you, but I have great and awesome friends whom I used to play years with. I KNOW they loved and lived foosball as much as I did, if not more.
But so many fell to arthritic or ruined wrists, elbows and shoulders, ... bad backs too. Pain that might have started with old school caveman power foosball, or was at the very least completely aggravated by it. They can't play anymore... they didn't have a rollover to go to early enough. And you can still see it in their eyes when you talk about foosing... something they always loved that they just can't do anymore...
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sarcastic but half right played in the day but not bitter. sarcasim is a sign of bitterness though ease up
because it worked and it wasn't made illegal - the rest is history and now it is even being done in Europe on the "other" tables
I assume you played back in the day and are now just getting back into things or are you just hanging on to your bias and bitterness?
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Correct
Just MHO, but I have been playing for 35 years, and have shot a pull since I started playing. What I am running into is old body break down. To many miles, and to much hard work. I can do my pull shot effectively for part of a weekend, but there comes a point that I loose my consistancy. I have been working on the rollover. What I am finding is that it takes a lot of practice to be acurate and consistant with this shot, but it does not take the physical toll on the arm that the pull shot does. I played at Bart-O last year and decided to shoot a push-kick instead of the pull as my primary shot, and was able to play at a high level for the whole weekend. To me adding the rollover will give me another option, and help me last the weekend at big tournaments. I think that is probably the biggest reason Terry went to it exclusively. The other thing is, you can't deny the results.
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Wrong Mr. relate all to sports yes they were kicking not spinning and he wasnt even a player then never the less a major player
Terry Moore happened to be the first major player to understand and select a main offensive shot taking advantage of the moment of the metal rods, utilizing more power and speed without loss of target control. The same way Hans Friedrich Kircher did when he couldn't shoot with his hand after his injury.
It's just another logical progression in the game, utilizing spin and physics. Pretty much the same progression as when the pull shot was first heavily utilized. Unless you believe that they were doing stroke pulls and pushes, instead of just kicks when foosball tables first appeared. The same probably applies to hockey, and to pitching in baseball. It never ruined the game, but instead enhanced it. It allows those who never figured out the proper nonrecoil pull and thereby damaged their musculature, nerves and tendons, to continue playing for years, without loss of accuracy or power. And their sons AND DAUGHTERS who won't have to go through neanderthal pain and hardship to get good at their parents' sport.
It only ruins those who never respected progress or new techniques and who still dream of going back to their fantasy world for a perpetual second chance. Same guys who keep thinking the championship NFL team of their childhoods 30 years ago should survive a 16game season today against modern teams and still win out. Most well-adjusted older players who still have the competitive fire enjoy the newness of learning another shot like the rollover, which has evolved into its own series. And enjoy learning how to block another deadly option, like learning to hit or pitch curve balls in the American League after years of fastball variants in the National League, or vice versa.
Even real field soccer now allows vulcanized or grip striping on strikers' shoes, which allows previously impossible curved and sliding strikes that were unthinkable a couple of decades back. Customized or standardized rubber snap-on booties or wraps for selected foosball figures may be the next technological thing coming. We could call them fbooties or ftoes.
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this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO
I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.
There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.
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If a player wants to progress in this game they should never shy away from learning the difficult. How can you have confidence if you willingly shy away from that which is hard to learn? You have to pay your dues,,,
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If a player wants to progress in this game they should never shy away from learning the difficult. How can you have confidence if you willingly shy away from that which is hard to learn? You have to pay your dues,,,
That is a laudable attitude. But I worry more about those wanting to improve that, once they learn a "proper" or "workable" (for them, at least) technique of a certain shot or a certain defense, they go on to the next one. They spend way too little time on creating mental picture and muscle memory for each shot.
There is a similar attitude with learning pocket billiards or pool players. They spend too much time going after the next hard "draw" and the three-rail or kick shots. They never practice the "ducks", which is exactly where they often gag when it's "gotta run the table" time.
Back to foosball, once a noob or aspiring amateur learns a workable shot, they will warm it up and then go on to something else. I guess it's partly boredom, but the best players will always practice the "easier" shots till it "burns" and is burned into their head, their hand-eye memory, and their muscle memory. I've seen this a million times with players that went to the trouble of getting and situating a great table at home, but when I saw how they warmed up or practiced, they were not shooting a hundred of this in a row, or a hundred of these passes. And then they're surprised when they lose it in meat game, with no idea why "easy" passes, catches, and shots like a straight or spray just WILL NOT FOLLOW.
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Good point Killa! But it does help to defend against those shots by learning them and each person finds their niche eventually. But you do make a valid point, unfortunately I resemble what you describe at times. :-\
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First of all the rules did not have to be changed to make a pull legal. THEY DID FOR THE "LWSS" ( for those of you who don't know, this is the technical term for the "Limp Wristed Spin Shot" according to my good friend Flair)
Can't handle the spin? What do you mean by that? Shoot it? Come on, anyone who whao has played tourny foos for a few years can learn how to push spin, pull spn, and straight spin on goal in a matter of a few hours. Now that yes makes it eaiser for beginers to have a 3 man shot. That is why I am not saying make the LWSS illeagal, I am just saying don't allow it at the PRO LEVEL, I am saying keep it legal at the novice amature and and all non- pro levels. possibly smaller dollar amount tours like the nike league is in golf and the tornado is in foosball.
this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO
I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.
There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.
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this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO
I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.
There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.
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To the Spray and theBodyGroove,
It's pretty obvious that those who grew up with a shot find nothing wrong with it, seeing it as the most natural shot. When Wiswell developed the pull in the early 70s, and outstanding players in Texas and Seattle and Colorado started using the correct techniques, it became a dominant shot, so dominant that it was allowed half-points in early dyps and pickups. It was the "devil's" shot, and vilified by those who couldn't shoot it, happy with their older styles. In fact, a lot of detractors said the pull dominated so much that it killed the variety in the game, despite the same folks agreeing that the game was in the 5bar passing and defense, not the 3bar. But by the time the Spray started in 1979, it was the accepted kill shot.
When Terry Moore started winning majors and regionals with the rollover in the early 90's, it started taking over, as more players learned how much easier it was to use the physics of the table to generate the same power as openhand palmroll shooters, but with almost the same accuracy and virtually the same precision of under-rod shots. And yes, rules change, which can drastically affect the game, just as when they lowered the height of the major league baseball pitching mound. This diminished the devastating nature of sinking fastballs and sliders, which of course increased scoring, the importance of having movement and timing pitches, and increased the excitement of the game, only helping baseball. So did incorporating the three-point shot in the NBA and amateur basketball, and they are all none the worse, although pure shooters now have a more specialized and extended lease on life in hoops.
Who the f*ck cares about the old rules? They are arbitrary parameters set by whomever "JoeBlow Tourney Director" to allow civilized play. When they are changed, as long as there are still rules accepted by those who play, then the new rules are just as valid. The only complaints seem to be coming from most players who cannot or never developed a decent rollover defense, which is not harder to learn than a decent pull or pullkick defense. Especially those who are on the comeback trail, thinking the foosball world owes them jacksh*t because they were THIS GOOD or SUCHANDSUCH SOBAD during the Carter and Reagan years. Instead of enjoying a second chance at learning foos all over again, with less strain on older hands, wrists, tendons and the back and upper musculature.
Plus for those "real" players, not the ones with the "punch N poke" 5bars, no matter how devastating their holy pull or pullkicks were, they never lost that 5bar advantage, and a few months on the comeback using their 5bar and the much easieronthebody rollover allowed them to go back on tour and keep up with their sons, daughters, nephews, and nieces, and old and new friends. And if they had the right pull in the first place, they would still have that ace up their sleeve. Just as today's top players who use the pull, old geezers shouldn't complain, either fix and enhance their pull with the help of 30 years of techniques, learn to defend against rollovers and Euros and keep that 5bar untracked, instead of whining about lost glories.
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First of all I do not think expessing my opinion on a subject is whinning just like i don 't think someone who does not want the LWSS eliminated is whining about thier opinion.
One of your points is that it makes the game more enjoyable for older players. You are probably correct. It also is is a fact that just like golf when a pro golfer gets older or injured or if he never was or intended to be pro he will rarely ride in in a golf cart(which is not allowed at the pro level) or play from the white or blue tees rather than the "tour regulation" black tees OR take a mulligan etc. etc. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS.
UNLESS UNLESS UNLESSS
YOU DECIDE TO PLAY ON THE PROFESSIONAL TOUR!
Then you must walk the course play from the blacks etc. and if you can't do that, and do it better at the highest of levels, YOU ARE NOT A PRO!
Nothing wrong with that %99 of golers are not pro's walking the course and playing from the blacks must be done at this highest of levels in golf. They do not change the rules for old golfers because it's eaisier on thier old bones. they go to senior tour or they play recreational golf like everyone else.
Take note how i presented my facts without a hint of making any personal references to people who have a different opinion. Always keep your thoughts about a subject seperate from any individual if you want to come to deal logicaly.
When you start working on this conciously Fooskillah, you will then be able to completley understand not only why you are a complete schmuk who needs to just shut the F#@k up, because it just accents you idiocy, but you will also realize that by thinking completely objectively, why, it is common sense that's what you are and this is completely independent of your opinion on the LWSS
It is refreshing to to be able to conduct such a proffesional discussion on subjects like this, with a person who I consider at the esteemed level that I detailed in my previous paragraph
Sincerely
The Spray
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Hey Spray,
So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares? Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever! And no, it doesn't make them less of a person! Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate! Not dismissing you at all. And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.
But the direct profanity is uncalled for. Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy. Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years? You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise? You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot. You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?
And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up. I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair. And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."
And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as more random violence, made to look like a professional hit, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.
Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win. Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one. And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.
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When you start working on this conciously Fooskillah, you will then be able to completley understand not only why you are a complete schmuk who needs to just shut the F#@k up, because it just accents you idiocy, but you will also realize that by thinking completely objectively, why, it is common sense that's what you are and this is completely independent of your opinion on the LWSS
There's also a name for people who talk like that. It's the very same name I didn't want to quote here before...
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My bad Killah,confused you with bodygroover who called me gay a couple msgs ago. did i handle it well no!? threatening me i have issues with but take the last msg away and we should be fine. i will have more time tonight for this. oh i'm not a WHINER
Hey Spray,
So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares? Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever! And no, it doesn't make them less of a person! Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate! Not dismissing you at all. And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.
But the direct profanity is uncalled for. Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy. Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years? You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise? You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot. You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?
And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up. I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair. And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."
And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as random violence, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.
Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win. Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one. And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.
Hey Spray,
So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares? Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever! And no, it doesn't make them less of a person! Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate! Not dismissing you at all. And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.
But the direct profanity is uncalled for. Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy. Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years? You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise? You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot. You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?
And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up. I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair. And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."
And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as random violence, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.
Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win. Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one. And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.
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My bad Killah,confused you with bodygroover who called me gay a couple msgs ago. did i handle it well no!? threatening me i have issues with but take the last msg away and we should be fine. i will have more time tonight for this. oh i'm not a WHINER
No prob. Keep me out of that argument with TBG. And if he called you names, that is wrong, too. Although I will say that at least he is usually up front about any opinions. You must have pushed his buttons. Remember that no matter what, even if they're adversaries, as long as they are up front, not "snarking", or dropping PMs and hints about others that you can't see or reply to, then you can respond honestly. And I have to say, when there is something wrong with foos or tables or rules or this and that tournament, and there isn't really much one can do, except to put the word out, then "whining" or "carping" or "complaining" is all one can do. And if there are enough, then you can actually make change. And you won't find me disagreeing that keeping attacks on the logic or situation and NOT on the person is the only civil way.
And what is this obsession with flamers calling each other gay, or knob-polishers? I'm surprised that some representative fooser from groups like, for ex, the Foosball Assoc., Gehly-Gehlmen Of Table Soccer, hasn't come up here so far with a defamation law suit or something. Because there HAS to be a bunch of gay foosers out there, prolly still in the closet, but also right behind their foosing friends, alll the wayyyy..
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Not behind them all the way!?!? >:( ;D
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Not behind them all the way!?!? >:( ;D
Yeah... those guys with the knowing look and grin as yer drunk buddies wake up or come to, in the drunk tank at the Sheriff's. Losing their license is the last thing on their minds as they waddle to your car when you give em a ride home in the morning. Makes you worry 'bout em as they "sashay" to their front door.
And yeah, those "secret foosers" havta be the ones always cheering, "Block that Snake! Block that Snake!" in unison, complete with a dance routine ala NFL endzones. No matter if their friends are shooting, defending or just striking a pose or what.
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As I said earlier Spray, quit your whining and adjust or STFU. I just got back from a decent sized tournament with some of the better pros from my state (FL). Can they shoot good pullshots? Yes. Do they use them? Not really. The snake is just an all around better shot for a long weekend of events. Sorry that your nostalgic glory days are no longer a reality but get the hell over it. You whine on a similar tone as a few of the scrubs I spent the weekend with. And FWIW people like you did bitch about the pullshot when it first came into use. As Brian said, there was a point in time when the pull was only worth 1/2 point.
/dumbest replier the spray has ever heard
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Spray can't even read. I would never call anyone "gay" because I think using "gay" as a swearword is absolutely disgusting.
I said there's a name for people who call the Snake Shot "gay".
The Snake Shot is the "Green Beret" of shots. Why should you try to kill an enemy with a complex kung fu combination when you can just shoot him in the head?
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Cool
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OK guys I realize I may have pushed some buttons regarding my OPINION on the snake. I did just start up again after 15 years and already knew the snake was legal and part of the game today. Didnt mean to get you all riled up!? But realize this giving an opinon is not whining if it is then all of you are whining!? Thought it was fun for awhile, for all of us, but obviously not for everyone so I'M DONE!!! The LAST thing I will say on this site is this, Todd Loffredo, in my opinion, is still the best in the World. Last World Champion Doubles Winner while playing the front shooting a PULL and not losing a single game!!! No need for ANYBODY to reply I'M GONE. You win. Good luck guys.
The Spray
As I said earlier Spray, quit your whining and adjust or STFU. I just got back from a decent sized tournament with some of the better pros from my state (FL). Can they shoot good pullshots? Yes. Do they use them? Not really. The snake is just an all around better shot for a long weekend of events. Sorry that your nostalgic glory days are no longer a reality but get the hell over it. You whine on a similar tone as a few of the scrubs I spent the weekend with. And FWIW people like you did bitch about the pullshot when it first came into use. As Brian said, there was a point in time when the pull was only worth 1/2 point.
/dumbest replier the spray has ever heard
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Spray,
it was more than an opinion, it was a drive by...if you were trying to be funny well, not so much
for those who have spent a lot of time on the board, this subject comes up with regularity with someone saying the same kind of things you did
there is no reason anyone hear would know you were kidding
if you were trying to "have fun with" those who responded then you did but that is no way to make friends unless you never intended to and didn't care and you were just being a troll (which I don't believe was your intention)
don't give up with the board, just apologize and don't try and ryle people up for your own amuzment, it is at the very least rude
this is normally a friendly board but you were itching for a fight apparently and you got one
have fun coming back, hope to see you back here again in a more civil way
bbt
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The Spray is an old foos buddy of mine from the late 70's who has been out of the game for a decade or 2 and has hit the last 2 tour events and will attend at least another 3 this year. He told me he thought he got his tit in a ringer with this thread so I thought i would take a look.
After glancing thru here I believe the last post by bbtuna is briliaint for 2 reasons. I think he sized everything up correctly and he realizes that if today's tour players had a 1000 new Spays on tour, the players in the game right now would most likely beating up on most of them for at least 6 months maybe a year for huge prize money. (200 entry times 1000 is 200k entry's in that tourny being carved up) After that it is likely in my opinion guy's like this just like water will find thier natural level. In his case he was competiitive against touring pro's.
Let me tell you that is no easy feat when ( I am not kidding) his long pull sprays from the dot.
All I can tell you is this.... I can see why, like bbtuna said without personally knowing someone that made a couple of these posts you could eaisily take him for a jerk... but for what it's worth I know anyone, once they get to even meet this guy will realize he is not.
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Brendan,
that's always the problem with the anonymity in the internet. Your real personality remains concealed, and after one misdirected joke, everyone thinks you're a super jerk - I know what I'm talking about. Ask Phil Kennedy.
I personally didn't feel irritated by anything Spray wrote, nor did I think he was a bad person. Didn't always like the way he was expressing his opinion, but I guess that was mutual.
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OK, Everybody back inside!
Nothing to see here. Just a little misunderstanding. Don't make me call the forum police.
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Listen to Papa. From here on out all disputes should be settled in a civilized manner, on the table! ;D
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Brendon,
good to see you over here again...it would be a great shot in the arm if thousands of old foosers suddenly started playing again even if many of them would be out of sorts about a shot that is now almost 30 years legal.
some people just can't let go of it because it is a "spin" if you know what I mean ;) I bet there are some very influential people who would, even today, ban the rollover if they felt they could and still make their business work :P
however, I am a product of the 70's and have no problem with the rollover at all but I am also okay with 3 man goalie and hollow rods too
I am not saying I think any of these are better than the other, I think they are all arbitrary decisions about a game that is still in its infancy compared to many other games/sports
I mean, why is spinning a “bad” thing anyway…it could be argued it is random and could damage a table but that is wild beginner fling spinning not controlled spinning or accidental spinning…again, I am not arguing for it, I am just saying there is no absolute reason or air tight logic for it…there is only a random, emotional, and/or fiscal decision driving the approval of many things people feel are “established” or “tradition”
appeals to soccer, tradition, and the like are just emotional attempts to justify a position
tournament foosball essentially started in the mid 70’s and, as an example, the rollover was not an approved shot until 1990ish so basically the game went the first 15-18 years without it and now has gone 17-19 years with it…all this within the first 33-35 years of the evolution of tournament foosball…go back and look at the history of golf, baseball, and basketball and the significant changes that took place over the years of their growth up to today
some things are driven by reason and trouble, like certain rules, others practical logic, still others random emotion…I am of the opinion, the Rollover, 3 man goalie, center drop, accidental spinning which has no advantage to the spinner, time of possession per rod, number of hits off the wall for the 5 bar and no limit on the 2 to 5, number and length of time outs, number of games per match, double elimination, illegal aerial shots, and more are all decisions which are neither absolutely right or absolutely wrong
what do you think?
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BBTUNA, I have said this a thousand times and everytime I do nobody wants to believe me, they address this as if I said something different, but here it goes again. My biggest problem with the LWSS is that because it is so much easier to establish a shot on goal with the 3 man rod the vast majority of all new players that come into the game will shoot this shot. I do not think that if foosball had a chance to become a televised sport the look of a persons wrist on the rod is photogenic. I however think it does have a place in the amature, rookie or novice divisions, just not at the pro level. That being said not only is this sport a long way from being televised as a pro sport but my opinion is no more important than yours, or anyone else. I am a manufacturer of tables not someone running a tour as I think some people might conscrue. I also believe anyone running a tour right now would need thier head examined if they tried to make the shot illeagle.
P.S. What do you mean JAR..... Ha Ha
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Wow looking at Phil's post maybe foos is not that far from T.V.
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Sirfair,
i have read that before now that you write it...it is after all only opinion which was sort of my point
i won't go into my feelings on the easier to shoot on goal thing right now but I will say as far as being cool for TV, I have been back playing for 4 years and have played out in public/bars quite a few times over this time and nothing gets spectators who don't anything about the game more excited than see a rollover...ohhs, and ahhs all the time
i don't shoot one so I am not saying mine, I have to do twice as much with the rest of my game to get the attention of a decent hard/fast rollover...I think Tony Spree and Billy's wrist on the rod looked tough and cool but again, that is just me
I could see TV changing rod time limits which might inadvertantly change how often you see it or how it is shot
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I could see TV changing rod time limits which might inadvertantly change how often you see it or how it is shot
Hey! Now that's something! Being born a natural leftie, I've always wondered why releasing the ball from the 5bar was 10secs, while 15 on the two other areas. It always seemed ridiculous, since handling the closer tighter figures on the 5bar was a lot harder than getting a goal area or 3bar area ball controlled and ready for a pass or shot. At least above amateur level. I would not have a problem with changing the possession limits to 10 seconds for all three areas, and I don't think too many would complain if that were passed. Maybe at first, but I just seriously do not see what it proves to have less time on the 5bar than the two other possession areas.
I think it would be exciting to have 10sec time limits on the other two areas, for the pro and open events. The same as the shorter 24sec clock in the NBA is faster than the 30-45 sec college basketball limits. I'm sure that there were a few who mourned the loss of twin hobbies: growing a chiapet plant while watching Hank Iba style forever-passing basketball of the 40s 50s, as did those few who did the same in those circles with the wait-wait-wait then shoot the shot at 14.999995 ... but they peter out soon enough(they get bored with the chiapet), which is lucky for both sports/games and their futures. :P
Not that I mind the tense, blood-curdling waits from forwards that can and do shoot it at 1/10th of a second or at 14.9999,, but for that VERSUS and other media's sake, I believe the professional end will have to speed that up. Maybe they can have 15 or even 20 when setting up for gamepoint, but otherwise 10secs should be sufficient.
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And another thing about the rollover. Perhaps another reason to be thankful, grudgingly or not, to the popularity of the rollover. Having trained so many noobs, I noticed over the decades that once having seen the snake/rollover, even absolute rank beginners want to be able to shoot it. If not at stronger players at the local DYP, then definitely as a secret weapon against their fellow scrubs. They just have that need. EVEN those who fell in love with the pull early on. By its very nature, the rollover requires early adoption of absolute pinned ball control, the need for learning to go to a pin, move the pin, and stay on it. The same reasons that those in the earlier days knew the control advantages of backpin series vs under-the-rod shots.
Almost any player above beginner knows the rollover, thanks to its dominance, and may even prefer and admire the pull, but can do the rollover, meaning they can pretty much set the ball and center it within a splitsecond after controlling on the 3bar. And especially for the motion or non StandStill rollover shooters, they just pin, get into rhythm and shoot. Even a 7 second limit might not faze the majority of players above beginner.
That would be even nicer to TV or streaming Internet shows.
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BBTUNA, I have said this a thousand times and everytime I do nobody wants to believe me, they address this as if I said something different, but here it goes again. My biggest problem with the LWSS is that because it is so much easier to establish a shot on goal with the 3 man rod the vast majority of all new players that come into the game will shoot this shot.
Why is that a problem? Take me for an example: Having a job, a family and a band, I don't have the time to learn a decent Pull Shot or Euro Pin. But I still want to play the game. Thanks to the rollover, I can have a working 3-row and still put enough time into passing. Even if I had the time, I'd probably shoot a rollover and put much MORE time into passing. Isn't passing the the essential part of the game? Why then does everyone seem to get so emotional about 3-row shots? The 3-row is just there to hammer the friggin' ball into the goal. Getting it there is what makes the game interesting, isn't it?
I do not think that if foosball had a chance to become a televised sport the look of a persons wrist on the rod is photogenic.
I think this is mainly acquired taste. To me, there is nothing more boring than watching a Pull Shooter (except Horton and Loffredo). I know it's a difficult shot that takes a lot of skill, but frankly I don't care. On the other hand, whenever I watch Tony's 3-row, I'm close to a heart attack. You're probably yawning or rolling your eyes when you see that. But are you right and am I wrong, or vice versa? I don't think so. De gustibus non est disputandum.
I however think it does have a place in the amature, rookie or novice divisions, just not at the pro level. That being said not only is this sport a long way from being televised as a pro sport
I'm dying to see what Eurosport 2 will make out of the footage they shot at Nantes. I really hope Foosball will get relevantly pushed by that.
Regards
Pat
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Rollovers, especially walking rollovers, look really cool. If I show a non foosball player a pull shot they just say "wow thats fast" if I show them a rollover they are totally impressed and think its the coolest thing, everyone has to try it. I know that having different shooting styles against eachother is a good idea, but really just filming open doubles would have been cool, they could have just shown the good parts of the best matches.
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Killa,
I agree about 10 second thing...only a few players would even know it was gone...90% of the game for 90% of the players (or higher) is already played within the 10 seconds (at top levels)
this means a time change by itself would not make the game a ton faster or more interesting from a spectators perspective
now I worked with Johnny Lott quite a bit when he was trying to roll out legend and I wrote a rule book for that which was a mix of his ideas, my ideas, USTSA, and ITSF rules
he was going to make all rod times the same, 12 seconds, and have two styles of play...one was what we do now and the other was a "fast" style where how long the ball could be stopped was limited to a couple seconds
we went round and round about this and what constituted a stopped ball and how that impacts a pinned ball and blah, blah, blah I won't go into all the detail but I will say, I have tried this style play with friends with the rules as I wrote them and it is a lot of fun once you get used to it
it makes the 3 bar look much more active and interesting weather you do an inline shot or a pinned ball shot...it would be a total no brainer no impact for Todd, Tommy A, Tony S, and Horton but the rest of foosball would totally be transformed
I think this style and 10 second time limits would radically transform the game for good and would make it much more fun to watch
Johnny and I did not see eye to eye on some of the detail and Johnny feels very much like SirFlair on the rollover but conceptually, I think it is a great idea as long as you don't outlaw the rollover while doing it like Johnny intended
people would of course complain at first but after working with it for a while, I think 90% plus of current players would really embrace it because it is fun for the players too
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here is the rule in its near final form the way I wrote it but again I would change it to 10 seconds and after messing with it for a while, I might actually go with a 1 second or zero second stop...this is only the stopped ball part and not the "spinning" "rollover" part because I for sure would not limit people and try and kill the rollover
8. ALTERNATIVE GAMES/FORMAT & SPECIALTY EVENTS
8.1. Soccer Style (S-style) Rules of Play: On WTSA there will be two predominant styles of play. One (the more traditional relatively slower style – sometimes referred to as “Texas Style”) is the “T” style (Traditional or Texas style) and the other is “S” for Soccer style featuring a faster soccer style of play. The entire rule book applies to both styles with the following exceptions for S-style play.
8.1.1. Stopped Balls 2 or 3 rod: Balls can not be stopped for more than 2 seconds without shooting,
passing, or putting the ball back into play. The player can restart the clock by putting the ball back into play. In the meantime the overall 12 second per rod time limit continues.
8.1.2. Back and front pins are considered two different shots and therefore two different sets.
8.1.3. Pinned Balls 2 or 3 rod: A Pinned ball is not considered a “Stopped Ball” until the lateral motion of the pinned ball is stopped for more than 1 (one) second – a pinned ball that is not in lateral motion but is rocking in place is considered stopped.
8.1.4. Stopped Balls 5 bar: All 5 bar rules remain the same as the “T” style play except that the ball can not be stopped for more than 2 seconds…see Stopped Balls 2 or 3 rod and Pinned Balls 2 or 3 rod.
8.1.5. Back Into Play: To put the ball back into play means moving the ball from one playing figure to another (pinned or inline) or from one pin set to another.
8.1.6. Penalty: If the ball is stopped for more than 2 seconds or there is an attempt to advance the ball after the 2 seconds, these are the penalties:
8.1.6.1. If the ball is scored, the score does not count and the ball goes to the opponent on their 5 man or 2 man rod (their choice).
8.1.6.2. If the ball does not score, the team on defense has the option of continuing play from the current position, continuing play from the point of infraction, or serving the ball at their 5 man or 2 man rod (their choice).
8.1.6.3. Continued violations may be grounds for a technical foul.
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Soccer style sounds like a lot of fun to me. It sounds like 70's north country foosball. Gotta love it!
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Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
Jonny
Hey Jonny, If you make it to Dallas, look me up. I'll be one of the THREE black guys in the room,lol. Hopefully in March if all goes according to plan, I'll be at the Tecball world's. Are you going?
I know you said it was more of a personal thing with Tim, but it would have been nice to see you go up against someone like Billy, Todd, a Tracy Mac. No offense, but although Tim shoots a good pull, it is not one of the most dynamic. And the fact he really didn't change his defense against your shot baffles me a bit. But you gotta love it when someone calls you out on something and shove it down their throat for all to see.
I've shot this shot before not as a main shot only as a change of pace and only on a goalie who has no clue. Never thought it would be a viable shot against good goalies. It's similar to two guys I've seen in France on the Bonzini. They both shoot front toes but one starts from the pull set and the other the push set and their straights are devastating. In other words, they have also taken a shot which traditionally started from the middle and have moved it to one side.
So if I don't see you in Holland, I'll see you in Dallas for sure, I live here. Tell Sandra, Tim, and Mark I said hello.
And bodygroove, no excuses. You need to go to the Tecball Worlds. Time to put up or shut up, or should I say show up,lol. If I travel 7000 miles the least you could do is travel a few hundred kilometers right?
Ice.
P.S. Hey Spray, Jim Stevens says hello.
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Hey Jonny, that angle from the straight option is pretty sweet to do. I'm fighting a hitch on the long though, still working on it and have studied your form closely to see if I can get any clues on how to get the toss that long and that fast. I'ts coming though. Sorry, I won't be making it to Texas, I wish I could.
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And bodygroove, no excuses. You need to go to the Tecball Worlds. Time to put up or shut up, or should I say show up,lol. If I travel 7000 miles the least you could do is travel a few hundred kilometers right?
Hey Iceman, what's up, brother?
Accomodations are already running short at that place, but maybe I can make it there for one day and go back home at night. You're crazy to travel that far just because of that stupid game... ;D You'll be going there as a member of the Insidefoos crew, right? Will you have the time to teach me how to shoot a Pull Shot at all?
They both shoot front toes but one starts from the pull set and the other the push set and their straights are devastating. In other words, they have also taken a shot which traditionally started from the middle and have moved it to one side.
Is that so? I thought the traditional Euro Pin starts from a pull set... You'll see that shot A LOT at the Tecball WCS.
Cheerz
Pat
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It's a deal.
You promise to show up and I will promise to show you how to shoot a pull and anything else you want to know. I just need to make sure I get the following Monday off to allow for travel. That's what I'm working on now.
So yes, if I make it, I will be with insidefoos but also will play with the American team if we have enough players to form a team for the team competition.
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The SPRAY here,
Played with Flair last night and after beating fernando for winners of the winners, he said something about The Spray and I told him again about our fun here!? He told me he said his piece in the chat room and you guys all feel a little better about me. For all of you who know Brenndan if you like him youll like me we both play aggresive (70's style) both tell great stories and WILL make you laugh. Hope to see you in Dallas, playah's!!! Oh yeah got double dipped by, dont even know what to call this shot by Fernando but didnt miss much.
The Spray's back
The Spray is an old foos buddy of mine from the late 70's who has been out of the game for a decade or 2 and has hit the last 2 tour events and will attend at least another 3 this year. He told me he thought he got his tit in a ringer with this thread so I thought i would take a look.
After glancing thru here I believe the last post by bbtuna is briliaint for 2 reasons. I think he sized everything up correctly and he realizes that if today's tour players had a 1000 new Spays on tour, the players in the game right now would most likely beating up on most of them for at least 6 months maybe a year for huge prize money. (200 entry times 1000 is 200k entry's in that tourny being carved up) After that it is likely in my opinion guy's like this just like water will find thier natural level. In his case he was competiitive against touring pro's.
Let me tell you that is no easy feat when ( I am not kidding) his long pull sprays from the dot.
All I can tell you is this.... I can see why, like bbtuna said without personally knowing someone that made a couple of these posts you could eaisily take him for a jerk... but for what it's worth I know anyone, once they get to even meet this guy will realize he is not.
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It's a deal.
You promise to show up and I will promise to show you how to shoot a pull and anything else you want to know. I just need to make sure I get the following Monday off to allow for travel. That's what I'm working on now.
I can't promise anything right now, but I'm working on it, too.
So yes, if I make it, I will be with insidefoos but also will play with the American team if we have enough players to form a team for the team competition.
As long as you won't be playing against the German team, I'll be shouting for you! Go Iceman! Go USA!
Cheerz
Pat
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Good to meet you Get a block and as Stevens knows I want all pics and videos of ME and will pay a fair price. Let me know. See you in Atlanta if not sooner.
The Spray Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
Jonny
Hey Jonny, If you make it to Dallas, look me up. I'll be one of the THREE black guys in the room,lol. Hopefully in March if all goes according to plan, I'll be at the Tecball world's. Are you going?
I know you said it was more of a personal thing with Tim, but it would have been nice to see you go up against someone like Billy, Todd, a Tracy Mac. No offense, but although Tim shoots a good pull, it is not one of the most dynamic. And the fact he really didn't change his defense against your shot baffles me a bit. But you gotta love it when someone calls you out on something and shove it down their throat for all to see.
I've shot this shot before not as a main shot only as a change of pace and only on a goalie who has no clue. Never thought it would be a viable shot against good goalies. It's similar to two guys I've seen in France on the Bonzini. They both shoot front toes but one starts from the pull set and the other the push set and their straights are devastating. In other words, they have also taken a shot which traditionally started from the middle and have moved it to one side.
So if I don't see you in Holland, I'll see you in Dallas for sure, I live here. Tell Sandra, Tim, and Mark I said hello.
And bodygroove, no excuses. You need to go to the Tecball Worlds. Time to put up or shut up, or should I say show up,lol. If I travel 7000 miles the least you could do is travel a few hundred kilometers right?
Ice.
P.S. Hey Spray, Jim Stevens says hello.
Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
Jonny
Hey Jonny, If you make it to Dallas, look me up. I'll be one of the THREE black guys in the room,lol. Hopefully in March if all goes according to plan, I'll be at the Tecball world's. Are you going?
I know you said it was more of a personal thing with Tim, but it would have been nice to see you go up against someone like Billy, Todd, a Tracy Mac. No offense, but although Tim shoots a good pull, it is not one of the most dynamic. And the fact he really didn't change his defense against your shot baffles me a bit. But you gotta love it when someone calls you out on something and shove it down their throat for all to see.
I've shot this shot before not as a main shot only as a change of pace and only on a goalie who has no clue. Never thought it would be a viable shot against good goalies. It's similar to two guys I've seen in France on the Bonzini. They both shoot front toes but one starts from the pull set and the other the push set and their straights are devastating. In other words, they have also taken a shot which traditionally started from the middle and have moved it to one side.
So if I don't see you in Holland, I'll see you in Dallas for sure, I live here. Tell Sandra, Tim, and Mark I said hello.
And bodygroove, no excuses. You need to go to the Tecball Worlds. Time to put up or shut up, or should I say show up,lol. If I travel 7000 miles the least you could do is travel a few hundred kilometers right?
Ice.
P.S. Hey Spray, Jim Stevens says hello.
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Well Kid ... I hate to tell you that people were shooting that snake shot that way over 18 years ago. Check out an old guy ( Named Jet ) I think from Germany that has been playing many many years ago and he was shooting the snake shot the same way when I saw him at Milo butterfingers in Texas before the World championships in the late 80's.
Uhhhh I think that the "kid" you are talking down to is the one called Jet. At least he is according to you tube.
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Other than you guys, the "kid" in the video knows Jet personally, since they both play on the P4P tour. Jet's name is Hans Friedrich Kircher, and he invented the Shot after a wrist injury...
The video is entitled "Pull Shot vs. 'the Jet'" because "Jet" ist what we call the Rollover here in Germany, as Jim Stevens clearly explains. (Did you also think the other kid's name was "Pull Shot"? ::)) Next time you watch it, turn the sound on.
And Johnny never bragged about having invented the long Snake or something. He said that he only knows three guys who shoot this as a main shot. I seriously doubt that Jet used it that way on a Tornado. Maybe he was shooting a three-quarter-long or something. I've sent the man a message and will post his reply here.
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I hope Hans Friedrich "Jet" Kircher will answer me and clarify this issue. And if you read Johnny's post it's obvious he's a nice, humble kid who wouldn't claim to have invented anything that he hasn't.
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Sorry for not showing up sooner.
Ice, I´ll be at the Tecball WCS and I know how you look like so you´ll be easy to track down, especially because you´ll be the ONLY black person in the room :)
I know Tim´s pull is not the fastest, but like I said, it was more for fun than anyting else. Maybe Ryan wants to give it a try at the Tecball WCS. I believe his pull should be a little bit faster than Tims :)
OM: I´m using a different toss on Tornado for the shot, so don´t try to read anything from that video, especially because I changed a lot since than to get rid of the spray.
And to SnakeShotBlows:
Like TBG already stated, Hans "the Jet" is a friend of mine. By the way, he got his name from always wearing a yellow gasstation cap which was named Jet. In Germany, the snake was named after him and is since then called Jet. I have deepest respect for him. Just look up the table-soccer.org rankings site. You´ll see his picture twice in the senior disciplines on the first place.
And, believe it or not, I already got the answer to the question TBG is waiting for.
The answer is no, he didn´t shoot it like that. Ho shot 3/4 positions or quite long, like he is still doing. But always with a rocking motion, not completely from a still set up and not from the outer most point.
Don´t know why you think you can be disrespectful to me when you only seem to have half-knowledge of the subject. Or do you earn that right when you have played "back in the days"?
What´s your name anyway?
Mine is Jonny Mueller.
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Ha! I knew that!
And I'd love to see a match between Johnny and SnakeShotBlows...
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Jonny, good to see you check in on us. You'll have to challenge some other poor victim and play it on Youtube so I can watch the new and improved version. I just can't get anything beyond 3/4 without a hitch in the shot. I did find that angled tweener option at the straight position. As long as it is set right all you have to do is come hard on the cushion and it's there. If it is done on the pullside it can be hard on the hand though, thumping it on the table. Say, are you the Muller on the German team at worlds? If so no wonder everyone made fun of me calling you a kid. I'm 55 so I call alot of players kid. Nice to hear from you. Arlie
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Hey OM,
no, I´m not that Mueller. His name´s Thierry. I´m 26 and you can go on calling me kid, that´s fine :)
Hope your making progress with the long option.
Greets,
Jonny
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See ya soon, heading to Vegas tonight, then we leave for Tecball on Monday...can't wait.
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Great
And you can count me in for the mind-boggling foos lecture you´re gonna give to Pat.
See you on thursday,
Jonny
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You guys can double-coach me. Who's gonna drive me home after the breakdown I'm sure I'll have?
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Oh....you will have a breakdown,lol. Jonny gonna have to drive you home.
Just dont forget you pencil and paper. hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha( that's an evil laugh by the way )
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Just dont forget you pencil and paper. hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha( that's an evil laugh by the way )
I'd suggest an HD videocam for proper review... and then post it here so we can all see it (pretty please!). I've never had the privilege of seeing Ice in action and I could use the lessons as well ;)
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I´ve got a camera with me.
Lets see what can be done :)
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Ey Johnny, hast Du sie noch alle???? Ich will doch meine Fresse nicht auf nem Film in nem Ami-Forum sehen!
I wouldn't want to see videos of my lessons posted in the web. That would be too embarassing. Maybe if I can do the editing and make myself look like I can play Foosball...
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Ey Johnny, hast Du sie noch alle???? Ich will doch meine Fresse nicht auf nem Film in nem Ami-Forum sehen!
I wouldn't want to see videos of my lessons posted in the web. That would be too embarassing. Maybe if I can do the editing and make myself look like I can play Foosball...
Tragen Sie einfach eine Barack Obama Schablone, während sie das Video nehmen. Niemand wissen!
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Wow, two weeks since your last post. Did it take you so long to formulate this ingenious piece of poetry?
Really, I don´t get it. You may have seen Hans shoot a similar snake years before and thought you could talk down to me cause you know a lil something. Well, that didn´t quite work out in your favour. Now this crappy line??? Do you really think you can insult anyone with this??? I mean, you´ve never seen me in a tournament shooting this shot, so if you think it´s a joke it just shows how much you don´t understand about foosball.
"suck at foosball?" that was a good one. Oh, I forgot, you don´t like building arguments around facts, you just write bull*** that comes to your mind. There seems to be quite a supply of it in your head...
And if you would have read some of the posts of OM here on this board you´d surely know that it´s the least thing he would say. But sorry, I forgot again, facts are not your strength.
Take your time with the reply, I´m already looking forward to it. Just go crazy...
The Kid
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Jonny, why even bother responding to this guy. He obviously hates, wants to hate, and wants to piss people off. In other words he has no value to this site or the sport what so ever. If he came here with good posts and non-caustic points of view there would be plenty of people to bounce ideas back and forth with. But he only wants to try to get people mad. What a bummer having to go through life like that,,,
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it takes some personal control but like I said on another thread, "Trolls" crave attention and getting peoples goat so NOTHING is worse for them than being TOTALLY ignored...best to skip anything they write but if you can't help yourself to read it YOU need to show the self-control to not respond
do not talk about them, do not respond, totally and completely ignore them..."trolls are dead to me"
come on team, lets all get on the same page, say it with me
"Trolls are dead to me!"
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I know what you are saying but this poor little man is just looking for some one to notice he is alive, just like a naughty child who's parents ignore him. If he can't get good strokes he will try to get bad ones. I know it's pathetic but I feel sorry for him. Does anyone know his story, maybe there is some reason he hates the world.
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^^^ honestly, who cares. Internet tough guys are like ugly girls who wear a thong to the beach.
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Ugh! Word picture! >:( Well I guess it could have been worse, an ugly guy in a thong,,,
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A Sumo wrestler in a Speedo
Twiggy in spandex
why do you think they call them "Trolls"