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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: PushKickKing on March 20, 2009, 03:02:17 PM
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Hello everyone,
My name is Jake and I will be at the missouri state tournament next week. This will be my first big tournament so I had questions on how to shoot on people who a. haven't seen the pushkick that many times and b. pros. I was playing joe rodes (I don't know how to spell his name) a while back and noticed that the split dink was working really well. Am I to expect that with all pros? thanks for you time.
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Jake,
how you doing? this is Charles/backpin/BBtuna
how you been...for those who don't know Jake, he is a young player who choose a pushkick and it is very good and he is a very smart player too
it is great to see - as most of you know, it takes a big commitment to choose anything over the rollover for a new player (new relatively speaking and young compared to me…still in his 20’s)
Friday isn’t a good day to post this sort of thing usually so if you don’t see anything over the weekend, bump it again on Monday
Anyway, there is no magic bullet on shooting against mature defenses…something that works one time might not, should not, the next since a good goalie is always adjusting.
I know things about presenting defenses against a PsK but haven’t shot one long enough, nor in many years, competitively to learn standard approaches verses certain defenses however there are others on here who I think can help
I will say I think the 3 and 4 hole split is open more often than you might think against good defenses and I would make sure I had several hard moves to the 1 hole which I haven’t seen you use the few times I have seen your shot
Last for now from me…consider different starting positions…anything from the barely off the wall start up to the big box line start
This doesn’t get at your question but a couple of things I have had on mind since last I saw you
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PKKing,
I love watching a good pushkick series. I guess the 2 things that come to mind in general are variety and timing. Assuming your mechanics are good (smooth takeoff, able to hit different holes from the same set) never lose track (as you adjust based on what is/isn't working) of how you are mixing up your timing. Sometimes the longer you wait the more impatient the D gets, and conversely the quicker you shoot the more predictable your shot becomes. As with every shot, it is both when and where you shoot, and as long as you are adjusting as much to the when's as to the where's you should be fine.
Now I'm going to blast a few racks 'cause you got me thinking pushkicks!!
Take care...........................................Tyler
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While at MO State, if you hear a match being called with Craig Legens, make a beeline for the table. Old School player with a great pushkick series, and when he's hot goalies beware!
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Hi Jake. My name is Kevin, and I'm a Canadian in Taiwan. I'm not ranked by ITSF, and I haven't played in any pro tour tournaments, so take my advice as seriously as you want. That said, I have a fairly good push-kick which has worked well against players in Vancouver and Palo Alto (those are the only cities in North America I've played). My other primary offense is my pullshot, which isn't too bad, but not squaring up as well as I'd like.
Anyway, I like the fact that most guys don't expect a push kick. If you can hit the long one fast and consistently, you'll surprise the heck out of people. I really use the element of surprise in my game. And I'll start my push kick from different spots, and while the ball's still moving (which is dangerous sometimes). Here are a few variations I use that keep my opponents guessing:
(assume "A" is the 3-bar near-side man, "B" is the 3-bar middle man)
- From the same set-up, get a good short, middle, and long push-kick (I generally just do long and middle, and for short, read the next point)
- From the same set-up, do a push shot with B into the short-side hole. This works great after a long push kick.
- Again with B, do a sliding push shot (a dink, I guess it would be) with the same push-shot set-up
- Do short tic-tacs between A and B, and surprise the opponent with a long push kick when he falls asleep
- Set-up for a pull-shot and reverse it into a push kick... if you can get this consistent, it's frickin' awesome. (I like doing a kick push and reversing it to a pull-shot too, but I find it harder to control that pull-shot)
- Likewise, if you have the pull-shot, you can do some slow movements to make it look like you're trying to set up the pull - again, same concept, surprise them with your push kick.
I think it's worth learning a pullshot to complement the push-kick. They work great together because they go in opposite directions. The one thing I don't like with the push-kick is that if my timing is off (comes with being tired), it's hard to connect. Because it relies on passing between players.
Hope that's a little helpful at least. Good luck at the tournament.
Now I gotta post to get some help too...
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Kevin,
Good info. One other option that comes to mind, especially if you've got a good rolling pull shot, is to fake the pull and hit it with the 3rd man instead (John Wayne). If you've got everything you mentioned already working, throwing in a strong John Wayne would add to the options, which in turn might help sell some of the ones you already mentioned. Oh, the options of a good push kick series!
Take care..............................Tyler
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I shoot a push-kick off and on, depending on a lot of factors. A quick PK when setting up for a pull is usually unexpected, and a good way to catch your opponent off guard. But that is if you are shooting a pull. Now, as far as shooting the PK as your primary shot, one thing that is essential if you are playing against a good semi pro goalie or better, is that you always shoot a long for your first shot. Take your time, get a quick set up, and use at least 10 seconds after you are set to shoot. The reason for this is that any good goalie will not let you have anything short, or split until you have at least shot the long and showed them you can hit it. It does not matter if you score or not, you have proven you can, and will go long. The only time I would not shoot a long on my first shot is if the goalie was was hanging out in the middle and long, then I would shoot a fast, hard push with my first man into the short hole, but most goalies won't do that in the beginning. They will race you until you prove that your shot is unraceable. Now for the goalies that haven't seen a PK that much, you have to figure out what they leave open the highest percentage of the time. Most inexperienced goalies will leave the short almost every time after you burn them on the long 3 or 4 times, but you can also just time the long on them and keep shooting it until they change the D. One other helpful tip, only work the middle on a D that is leaving a split. If the goalie is racing with both men, it is much more difficult to score the split. Last but not least, learn a good 3/4 to shoot on the ultra fast goalie who baits you, and beats you to the long. LOL
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Sorry, I'm terrible with terminology. What's the rolling pull? Is that when you do a fast pull while not stationary?
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Kayko,
Yes, a rolling pull is when you look like you are setting up a pull shot as you move the ball from the 1 to the 2 man, but instead of stopping the ball you immediately do your pull shot. It is most effective when you appear to be setting up for a set pull and you lull the defense into complacency. It's actually stronger as a surprise option from a pull shot series, but it could work well in the overall push kick series options as well.
Tyler
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Yep, gotcha.
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Hey Jake,
Have you tried all this advise and technique? Let us know what worked for you and what didn't.
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There are a few helpful tips on a friends blog that he just started foosballkingdom.blogspot.com. It has some tips and stuff for the push kick.
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pretty good for a first tournament whata ya think - and it was a pushkick showing up
won 3 tables...
I hope he keeps at it and this isn't just a first time flash in the pan but like I said in my first post, goog PK and smart player...I forgot to mention, tough as nails too...we played win by 2 no limit and in your 3 game match we went like 26 24 and he out lasted me...lots of play all over the table
he may not know it, but his game is solid in all areas but he is tough defensive player on top of being good at the other things and at his level of development that is remarkable
Jake Rabadan
1st Beginner Singles
1st Rookie Singles
13-16 Open Singles
9/12 Expert Doubles
13/16 Expert Singles
9/12 Rookie Doubles
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Jake,
Very serious congratulations. Not only did you taste success, you ran into some opponents that will help you stretch your game - the way it should be! Keep it up and never stop enjoying practice, which is your ticket to the next level.
Take care........................................Tyler
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I really appreciate all the tips you guy gave, they all helped. Hitting the first shot long was a good idea, but I would have to say that the most common shot people let in was the dink, and my dink was on fire :) I slept through my pro singles and amateur singles and then they would let me play beginner doubles but I was done playing foosball. Thanks tuna and tyler for the kind words hope to see you guys at the next one.
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Jake,
Of course, if you're first shot wasn't a long, they may have blocked the dink on you. The importance of establishing the long is that they are forced to leave more short stuff open to be able to cover that long. Conversely, if you start with the short stuff and they block it, they are forcing you to shoot the long, not the other way around where you are controlling the shot selection. There are many defenses, but it is always a plus for you to establish that long early.
Tyler
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in case anyone doesn't get on the other board, here is the dust kicked up by Jakes work at the tournament
http://www.foosballboard.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3045
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I really appreciate all the tips you guy gave, they all helped. Hitting the first shot long was a good idea, but I would have to say that the most common shot people let in was the dink, and my dink was on fire :) I slept through my pro singles and amateur singles and then they would let me play beginner doubles but I was done playing foosball. Thanks tuna and tyler for the kind words hope to see you guys at the next one.
Yeah, I had the unfortunate luck to draw him in the very first round then fall prey to that very series. I can vouch for that pushkick dink, half the shots he scored on me were that split, the other half were 2bar pushes that either were tight in the short corner or splits. Very effective! I'll know better next time though, young man! lol
As much as I wanted to get back up to the finals to get some revenge, I got 5bar hacked out by a rather surly and rude young man who was basically just the opposite of Jake. So when Jake successfully held him off to win it all, I felt relief that Jake's positive Karma prevailed. Keep an eye on Jake, he's going on to great things!
Rick
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Hey Jake this is Kent from the Lake. I knew sometime this was going to happen. The times i have played in Lake and Columbia Tournaments you have always impressed me with your attitude and your dedication to improvement. I have never ever seen you lose your cool or talk trash to any opponent no matter what direction the game is going. SMOKING PUSH KICK and a solid 5 bar. Please think about Tornado Nationals i would like to have the chance to be your goalie or forward.
Kent