Foosball.com Forums
Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: jinhopark on November 01, 2009, 01:08:53 PM
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Ok so after many, many years of being away from the foos scene I just bought a gray marble Coin-Op Tornado from a bar owner who was getting rid of it. Cosmetically it is in OK shape and the coin mechanism still works at all. The rods were straight, but had some surface rust and none of the men were broken. The playing surface appears to be in great shape, and although it's old it did not appear to be abused in any way. In transporting it and moving it my buddy and I probably caused more damage to it than it's ever seen...chipped off pieces of the gray marble laminate on some of the edges. The unit was insanely heavy and cumbersome to move 50 miles from the bar location to the back of a pick up truck and down a flights of stairs into my basement. Anyways, enough of my whining...
The unit did not come with any balls...that was one of the complaints the bar owner had, he said he was sick of replacing those dang balls, or finding them on the floor of his bar each night...so there were no balls included. Like I said I've been out of the scene for a while and wanted to know, what are the best balls to use? Also, I heard that Tornado recently "upgraded" or changed the design of the men? And changed away from the wooden handles to some plastic kind? Is that true? PLASTIC handles (which always feel cheap to me)?
Anyways, I want to refurbish my table to it's original glory and make it look and play like new... I wonder if it's even possible to replace all the gray marble laminate one day... Thanks for any assistance.
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You can buy the balls on this site. You might also consider a bearing wrench, extra roll pins (and punch), silicone and a couple of extra men.
As for the plastic handles, don't be afraid of them. They're not the hard, slick plastic handles you find on a lot of tables. Now that I've played them, I think I prefer them to the old wooden ones.
If you take care of it, your table will outlast you.
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jin,
good job...how much did you pay for the table...what you do to update your table could run a bit of money depending on all you want to do. You can find basic stuff in this thread
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0
i will give you more specific advice after understanding more about your situation...how much did you pay, do you want the table to be solid and playable just for fun or are you wanting to prep for tournaments.
if you go to tournaments, you will only see the newest table in larger "tour" tournaments - I think there are only 2 locations in the country with the Platinum Tour Edition with all the changes
so, this means, if you want to bring your table up to that standard you will be doing it just because you want the newest of the new but not because it will impact your game in any meaningful way
with that said, if you have the money and want to do it, the changes are cool and really make the Grey Marble which is an already good playing table, really great...I have a friend who made most of the changes and his table plays better than any other one I have been on (ever) and I have played on the full converted 2009 tour edition
he has the new handles and they toally rock, highly recommened, best handle by far that I have used on Tornado or Warrior.
talk to me about rods before ordering new rods to replace your rusted ones...you do NOT want the current 2 rod if you can avoid it (well or the 3 for that matter)...I think there may still be some of the older heat-treated rods still available from Charles McIntosh (rods are 32.5 each)
Changes include:
New Side Strips ($25.50 for a set)
New Men $4.25 each ($110.00 for just enough to change all the men (26) but that doesn't allow for a couple of each color for back up) - i wouldn't change the 3 men on the goalie rods, that will save a few and you could use these for back ups...still $110 but it saves you the "extra" men
New Bearings (just the split bearing part) $3 per set (2 halves) this is for only side of the table, you need another "set" for the other side so it is $6 per rod - if you did the entire table, it is $48 but you really don't need to do the 2 rods and goales, so you can get away with $24
New handles $4.75 ($38 for a new set)
this means if you did all of this, without skimping at all, it would cost you $221.50 and this doesn't include extra men....sooo, depending on your willingness and ability to spend, you may do this in stages
there are also a couple other changes but they are 100% cosmetic
New Score Markers - total Sh#$t and waste of time, I won't even bother pricing them
ITSF Stickers and Tornado Stickers - make the table look for of cool competitive and official but I don't know how they would look on a Grey Marble, they were designed for the "fridge" models (metal wraped)
by the way, you can get new balls at this site...don't worry about all the talk about ball change for now, just get the latest edition, it is a decent ball and if you are just starting back up, none of the changes will make any differenece to you...
order the 5 hr tumbled version http://foosdirect-store.stores.yahoo.net/fts-110-005.html
PS: you also may want to consider a foosball light, there are a number of real nice ones out there now and they will cost you around $150 plus shipping
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bbtuna this might be dump qustion but will he need new bearings if he changes the side strip , i no the new ones are thiner and there was a problem with some of the later gray marbles not being able to stop wall passes all of witch i read some where on here the reason i ask is i kind of
half up graded my gray went with 3 new men on the 3 and 5 new on the 5
and new side stripes got the new bearings but did not replace yet but was wondering if the thiner was for the older gray marbles to
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Wow this must be the only foos board that people respond to on a regular basis! What an awesome resource!
I bought the table for $650 cash, which I feel I slightly over paid for but no one else in my area has sold a coin-op version for a long while...so he sort of had me over a barrel. To give you some more history, I am the original owner of a MINT condition HM 2000 that I bought new back in 1994. Actually my buddy and I each bought (and still own) the grey marble version...at the time I think it was the only home version table that Tornado sold that supposedly played just like the coin-op version or something...but what was annoying about it was that you had to retrieve the ball from the goal, and if you had another ball in there and scored they would occassionally fly out.
Anyways, fast forward 13 years later and I stumble into a local pool hall and see a crowded Tornado table...with the likes of Terry Moore and other amazing local foos players. Didn't even know Chicago had a foos scene worth mentioning...now 2 years later I stumble upon this Tornado coin-op and wish to refurbish it. I'd be willing to spend $300 or so to get it back to mint condition. In all honesty I can probably just swap all the parts off of my mint HM 2000 and put it on my brand old coin-op, right? Unless the rod and bearing designs have changed?
If they have changed the design of the men I'd like to change to the new style, and the new synthetic handles sound interesting... Without a doubt I'll buy the new balls, not sure what the 5 hour tumble thing is all about but I guess I'll be buying those.
I have a few other questions... What is the best lube to use for the hinges and the coin-op mechanism? Also, how do you put the coin-op to "free-play"? What is a good way to get all the goo residue off the metal parts of the back goal area? Also a nice stain from what appears to be a spilled beer into one of goals that got on the mdf...probably typical of a any bar foosball table.
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okay, both of you, this will take a while and will have to wait until tomorrow morning but I will respond
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Marty,
the new bearings are for any table going back to the Brwn Mrbl - oh, and there is no such things as an "old" Gry Mrbl coin op...the oldest can only be 6 years old and for a Tornado, that is like a 6 year old kid because I think one taken decent care of would last at least a normal humans life time :P
BEARINGS: the side strips have no "bearing" (excuse the pun) on the bearings...the change in bearings is that the outside face of the bearing has been made thinner...that is the only change...the reason for this is that there was a mold change on the bumpers and the bumpers started being made just a fraction wider than previously so that a very tight wall pass could pass between the man and the wall even if the rod was tight on the wall
the choice was remake the bumper slightly thinner or make the outside of the face of the split bearing slightly thinner...the side strip had and has, old or new, no connection and no impact either way to this issue
SIDE STRIP: the white side strip that has been on the table for 30 years was put on there so that the ball would not lay up on the edge if it rolled to it slowly or stopped right at the wall...the white strip created a little "ramp" for the ball to roll up and back down...
this works perfectly as designed however, another unintended consequence is that when hitting the ball from the 2 bar when the ball hits that strip the strip really is a ramp and the ball jumps...this creats two issues...more balls off the table and the more important of the two, IMHO, is that it makes hitting bank shots much more difficult which is already hard on this table because of hollow very flexible rods and the front hitting edge of the man which is a terrible design for hitting consistant angles (the biggest issue is that the front outside leading edge of the man's foot is curved...there is more, they attempted to address this with the new man design but made very little progress...some progress, but they didn't completely fix the issue and now they won't any time soon since they committed to a brand new mold for their man (the last mold was near 20 years old I think))
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jin,
okay, let me take this a little at a time
I bought the table for $650 cash, which I feel I slightly over paid for but no one else in my area has sold a coin-op version for a long while...so he sort of had me over a barrel.
$650 is a very good price for a used Grey Marble...I think they are worth $700-$750 depending on condition
you have mentioned a bunch of things and makes me wonder what kind of condition your table is really in...if it has rusted rods, that is a bad sign...Grey Marbles made from 2003-2007 so even the oldest is not old for a Tornado...you can tell the 2003 units they were the 30th Anniversary model and on the table surface, below the logo, it says 'Product of Valley'...no table made after this has this phrase
back to the condition...you need to take a bunch of close up digital pictures of all around the playing field, all the bearings and rods and then I can help you better determine what to do
if it has rusty rods after just a couple of years, the table has been near a ton of moisture...most of the Gry Mrbls had the heat-treated rods, again, even harder to make rust...so, lets take a good look before you start buying tons of stuff
To give you some more history, I am the original owner of a MINT condition HM 2000 that I bought new back in 1994. Actually my buddy and I each bought (and still own) the grey marble version...at the time I think it was the only home version table that Tornado sold that supposedly played just like the coin-op version or something...but what was annoying about it was that you had to retrieve the ball from the goal, and if you had another ball in there and scored they would occassionally fly out.
I didn't know Tornado made a grey version in 1994...if you have to retreive balls from the ends, it doesn't play like a coin op....
Anyways, fast forward 13 years later and I stumble into a local pool hall and see a crowded Tornado table...with the likes of Terry Moore and other amazing local foos players. Didn't even know Chicago had a foos scene worth mentioning...now 2 years later I stumble upon this Tornado coin-op and wish to refurbish it.
cool story, so you are in Chicago land area? I grew up in the NW suburbs of Chicago - Schaumburg/Hoffman
I'd be willing to spend $300 or so to get it back to mint condition. In all honesty I can probably just swap all the parts off of my mint HM 2000 and put it on my brand old coin-op, right? Unless the rod and bearing designs have changed?
no on the swaping...don't know what will or won't match but if you are willing to spend money, no need to take 15 year old parts, even if they are "mint" to fix a 4 year old table
If they have changed the design of the men I'd like to change to the new style, and the new synthetic handles sound interesting... Without a doubt I'll buy the new balls, not sure what the 5 hour tumble thing is all about but I guess I'll be buying those.
talk to someone before you buy the handles to make sure you get the newest ones, there have been quite a few...talk to Jim Waterman who runs this board and the foosball.com retail site or Charles McIntosh (tornadofoosball.com) either can help you...I always try and give Jim my business first since he his helping us talk even now with this board...I mean, you wouldn't be asking and I wouldn't be helping if it wasn't for him
5 hour tumble means how long they put the balls in a tumbler to get the roughed up surface...for this ball, it needs this long to get the right nap that will stay for any length of time
the men - well, this is the most expensive part outside of new rods at 32.5 a rod...the men are nice to have but for sure not need to have...rods are a must have...hopefully you don't have a lot of those to replace because a whole set would be $260 which wouldn't leave you much for anything else
I have a few other questions... What is the best lube to use for the hinges and the coin-op mechanism?
I am not certain, 5 in 1 would be fine...others may jump in and give you another idea but I have know people to use a little silicone but I wouldn't
Also, how do you put the coin-op to "free-play"?
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2708.0
What is a good way to get all the goo residue off the metal parts of the back goal area? Also a nice stain from what appears to be a spilled beer into one of goals that got on the mdf...probably typical of a any bar foosball table.
do you mean the curved metal piece at the back of the goal? Hot water and soap, rubbing alchol, 401...just make sure you dry off any metal surfaces real good to avoid rusting >:(
your table may not need new bearings unless you have to replace a bunch of bumpers...you may want to try and see if the ball fits behind the men...then if you find they do and you want to replace the split bearings, only plan to replace the 3 and 5 man rods
see my notes from the posts on http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0
on cleaning your new used table...it will take some work up front but once you have it all done, it requires very little maintenance each year...I put in less than 2 hours a year cleaning and replacing parts
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Yeah I live straight south of the Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates area...more specifically in the Naperville/Bolingbrook area, been here since early 1996 but grew up in the Detroit area my whole life. I think Terry Moore must live in the Chicagoland area as well...not sure specifically where, but there are quite a few foos players that play at Q's in Darien, IL (which is exactly on my way home from work).
How or where can I post pictures up of my Tornado tables?
I have the 1994 edition of the HM 2000, which is the the bottom grey one, like the one pictured here:
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=136003&ppid=1122&image=198697937&images=198697893,198697937&formats=0,0&format=0
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doesn't cost anything to start a picture account on a number of sites I use Yahoo's Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/
after you post your pictures there...you can just provide a link for us to go to or if you want to show the pictures on the board you go to your pictures, right click on one (not opened) and select Properties, then copy the http address - it will look like this
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3881746455_36ce2ddf66_m.jpg
this will also show up as a link, as you can see while you read this, and a person can link to the picture that way
any, if you want to show the picture here, then keep reading
you then highlight it and select the picture Icon above...it is the Icon just below the B for Bold - "Insert Image"
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3881746455_36ce2ddf66_m.jpg)
anyway, just an aside, but that is a picture of the new bearing on a 30th Anniversary Grey Marble my friend owns...i will give you some more pictures including the handles in another post
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4075872948_9115135707_m.jpg)
great table light...$150
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2572/4074744979_4049f4c1c0_m.jpg)
stupid new plastic markers
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2743/4075873002_c3d5f55264_m.jpg)
stickers i was telling you about
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/4075118905_f928356e95_m.jpg)
next 4 are of the new handle showing compared to the last two versions...it is the yellow one
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/4075872864_5044d53e94_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/4075118879_8419b79a43_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2694/4075118853_bd2e67fcfd_m.jpg)
new foot is on the left...hard to see the differences, they are subtle...like i said, you might want to think about spending that money
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3483/4075118825_a32fe55dfa_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/4075872772_66267d3c1c_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4075872724_388f539b19_m.jpg)
30th Anniversary Tbl with "Product of Valley" under the logo
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Hey Charles who's Tour Edition is that? Joe Rhoades? Did he win it or?
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no...the metal wrap pictures with the light, stickers, and score markers are from the tables at Worlds this year
all the other ones are from Chris Traynor's 30th Anniversary Grey Marble which he did some of the upgrades on...men, handles, and bearings
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I'll take pictures of my table this weekend... I must have the 30th Anniversary 2003 edition as mine clearly says: "Product of Valley" under the logo.
bbtuna you are a WEALTH of information... Once I get my pictures up you guys will have to help me with getting my shopping list of items to buy.
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Nice job Bb! You da man!
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OM, thanks man 8)
Jin,
that is good news, the 30th is a really good table...i really want to see the pictures and the rods...read my stuff on the history of the Grey Mrbl...i am not overstating the fact that my friends 30th with the new men, bearings, handles, and 5 hour tumbled balls plays better than any other Tornado i have been on
the upside for you is very high and since you have some money to spend, we can definately make your table as good as it gets assuming there is no structural damage to the surface or walls
don't rush forward at this point, be patient and you will be able to set yourself up with a pristine table and one you can count on for the rest of your life with minor maintenance or upgrade tweaking over the years
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Listen to charles, when it comes to tables he really knows his stuff! 8)
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thanks wildcard
jin, i have avoided the laminet issue because it isn't my area of expertise but I know it can be changed to something new - Mark Murrell is a fooser and engineer and he has built some great tables and he started wraping them in metal and calling them F5's - Tornado flat ripped it off from him without so much as a "thank you very much"
he does other radical things that i won't list out here cause it takes to long and i'm feeling lazy...Mark has been instramental in the update version of the Warrior which is expected out and available fairly soon
mark is a stickler for details and Sir Flair really wanted to get it all right...mark did a lot of things but the one i am most excited about is the design of the man...he has the tools because of where he works to cast samples without committing to a permanent mold and he knows how a table should play and he went through many iterations to find the best one...this will be the first time real live R&D will have been used on a table before manufacturing begins
the challenge will be if they can take all the great design updates and control manufacturing enough to get what they ask for...its very tricky and hard to do especially overseas when you aren't there for every little thing
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I like old school laminate marble look...but I guess the wrapped metal look is something that can grow on me. I wonder how much work would be involved and how much that would cost...
I also got this info from a local fooser when I set out to look for a table (I won't say specifically who), but may be you can validate or invalidate on what s/he said:
One of the main things to watch out for on any table is how the holes were drilled for the rods. There are a lot of tables out there that are drilled too low to the surface. If the man is too close to the table surface the ball will lift up on a roll over or a good pull shot and hit the goalie rod. There is no fix for this quality issue but you can check the height by placing a quarter on the table then put a nickel then a penny and then a dime in a stack and put all four coins under the middle 3 row play figure. You should be able to spin the rod without touching the coins. If you hit the dime or penny don't buy the table. Also check the surface for warping, so bring a new ball with you to check for warping. The ball will roll to the center if it's warped (if it's level).
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thats good advice, well put but I will add a little
Rod Holes: well, historically Tornado has never had the precision of precision engineered machines with tolerances at the .000001 of an inch and so forth...so, many tables rod holes are NOT drilled with the precision we all would like...Mark Murrell has documented this in a more scientific way
however, the holes aren't always drilled too low, some times it is just that the near hole isn't precisely aligned with the far hole so the rod is not perfectly horizontal with the table surface...this has been around the life of the table but has rarely (no table I have ever played on) been bad enough to create the ball lifting issue your source is talking about...not never, just no large batch obviously drilled low and no reason to not buy a table
up until the past couple of tournaments that Tornado has been running on the new Platinum Tour Ed table, the one with all the changes, especially at Worlds this year, that the drilling imperfection your source talks about has surfaced...some tables at Nationals (none I played on but at least one side of one table in the "pits") and many at Worlds had the holes drilled too low, not just misaligned. Rollover shooters in particular were having big issues since the man would come around and sort of just scoop the ball up into the rods
Tornado has not really made this table available to the general public so you aren't going to run into any of them unless you were to consider buying a tournament used and I don't think Tornado is giving any of them up yet
soooo, your Gry Mrbl may not be perfect, but it really isn't likely to have a noticable issue
Table Surface: Okay, again good but not complete...yes, warping is a deal breaker, trying to fix a warped surface or really warped or bubbling side walls are both deal killers unless you are super crafty like Mark Murrell
with that said talking about the metal wraped tables 2007-2008
Toward the end of the run and around the same time two important negative things happened...one is that they made a change in the production of the playing surface and there are a bunch of these tables with warped surfaces...if you get one of these warped surface tables you will own the worst Tornado ever made…I have had the misfortune of having to play on one of these and it ranks with the worst foosball experiences I can remember...EVER! there is no excuse and no fixing it...
The warped playing surface tables showed up at Tornado tournaments to the dismay of many...there is a "fix" suggested out there were you put blocks under the top to push up the surface (available on other board)...I won't get into details but a warped playing surface on any table in foosball is unacceptable PERIOD...the playing surface needs to be replaced by the manufacture...this is bad enough it should have a recall. Note: Tornado acknowledges that the warping is real and their problem. Tornado send a new surface but you have to replace the surface yourself and this is not easy for most people. Best not to get one to begin with.
ADDED - so unless you are trying to get one of those tables you are probably safe...I have seen some badly abused Tornado tables that have had gallons of beer spilled on them and not cleaned over a long period of time and the it caused warping and I would have someone buying a table always to check but yours is probably okay, we will see with the pictures
Replacing Laminate: should not be an issue for a person who is handy...it is simply put on and if you are careful, you just take the pieces off one at a time, whole, and use them as a template...now, getting the replacement laminate might be an issue but whenever you decide to tackle that, you can look further into getting the material from Tornado and doing something unique that fits your personality...you know like diamonds or other precisous stones
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My source was Merkel... I just didn't want any sort of bashing in case any one totally disagreed with him on the hole drilling issue, but since you agreed with his advise I don't see any harm in disclosing who my source is.
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i think the whole issue at Nationals and Worlds was exacerbated by the bad rods Tor used in this last batch of tables...not Merkel rods, as you can read in my other posts, his rods i think are the best table change Tor has had in the history I can track
these rods supposed to have all the same specs but they bent easy...2 rods most but the 3 rods were having issues too
be glad you don't have to deal with that...we will want to check to see what rods you have are merkel and what has to be replaced and then we will go to Charles MacIntosh to see if he has any left...i think he has some 2 rods
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Ok I finally found a few hours to clean my table, vacuum it out a bit and take some pics and post them...here are the Flickr links:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4088659918_10dea66880_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/4087901347_9eaee5f70b_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/4088659186_3fdbfafe5c_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2771/4088658870_14fe98f13c_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/4087900231_b2f0446dc5_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4088658190_2e305f6246_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2702/4087899473_eeae56334d_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2784/4088657162_f587972440_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2513/4087898309_40a76990cb_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2519/4088656152_0da3e92cf0_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4087897301_47c83aa125_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4087896191_219a1c5a79_m.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2588/4088653588_385e0d349e_m.jpg)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/36/4088652910_aa06de5266_m.jpg)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/4087894059_f4930f4b8b_m.jpg)
Tell me what you think...
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good looking table...all the things "wrong" are non issue stuff or not visible...
GOAL: you can clean those goals out with hot water and a little soap and a lot of scrubing with a greeny or maybe some bleach ---- not for sure, what would be best, but it isn't really anything important except that you are obviously very picky which is good
RODS: if only the ends of a couple rods have some rust forming like is pictured here, then don't worry about it, I for sure would not change them now over that...I assume none of them are bent?
Merkel Rods? Next we will want to determine if they are merkel rods....not all the 30th Ann tables had them, some had none, some had some, some had all - i will post how to tell later today
Even if your 2 rods were in good shape but were NOT Merkel, I would get Merkel replacements if Charles MacIntosh still has them because when they are gone, there are no plans in the known future to reproduce the original version of this rod
MEN: There was a mix of men on the 30th as well, read that in my history, it looks like you may have a mix, can't tell for sure without seeing more of them but since you want to upgrade, that won't be an issue. Plan to replace the 2, 5, and 3 rods with 2-3 back up of each color...I would leave the goalie rods alone, those men will do just fine
$110.00
BEARINGS: Plan to change the 3 and 5 rod bearings (only split inside half, the rest has no change)...no need to change the 2 or goalie since the fractional difference never comes into play
$24
SIDE-STRIPS: Plan new strips
$25
NEW HANDLES: For sure get the new handles, they actually impact play for the positive and even though I think they are sort of expensive, they are worth it.
$38
TOTAL: $197
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Thanks for the shopping list...
No rods are bent (that I can tell), but there is some rust pitting going on. I just took a picture of the worst areas. I'll probably call Charles to see what Merkle rods he has in stock and just buy those as replacments/backups (sounds like they are in short supply so I might as well have them on hand before there is NO supply). On a side note my 2 man rods are the 2 that are in the BEST condition, with minimal corrosion going on.
Plus I'll need the 5 hr tumbled balls... How many do you figure I should get for a coin-op? Originally I thought just 9, but maybe a spare or 2 as a backup?
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since money doesn't seem to be a big issue, i would get 20 of them
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Then 20 it shall be... Once I find my roll pin punch thingy I can assess which are Merkle rods.
Hmmmm... Oddly enough I go to Elkridge, MD monthly for business, which I think is close to Glen Burnie, MD. That being the case I wonder if it will be worthwhile to just visit Charles personally and make my purchase Vs. ordering online and having it shipped? Do they have an actual store front, or is it all via phone/online?
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jinhopark,
Just so you know, Charles is in North Carolina. Jimmie, who provides us with this forum, and is the owner of foosball.com, has a warehouse in Glen Burnie, MD.
You should come by and play when you are in Elkridge! We play a couple Saturdays each month in Jessup, MD. And there is usually someone there practicing on Wednesday evenings (not too late, just a few hours of practice by a couple of locals)
Jimmie MIGHT have some merkel rods, not sure. But he will certainly have all of the other parts you need. When is the next time you will be in Elkridge?
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Shoot, sorry for confusing the heck out of myself and others! Yeah I guess I meant to say Jimmie, not Charles.
I have no clue where Jessup, MD is. My Maryland geography is pretty bad, basically I just fly in to BWI, go to my hotel, have dinner at G&M's in Linthicum Heights or at Timbuktu's in Hanover...go back to the hotel, sleep, go to our Elkridge plant, go back to dinner, drive back to the hotel, drive back to the plant...this cycles continues until I fly back to Chicago. Sorry to get even more off topic, but I can honestly say I have never had better crabcakes than I have had in Maryland...
Anyways, I just recently went so my next trip probably will not be until early December...so I'm not sure if I can wait that long for parts... My kids and I are anxious to start playing some foosball on the "new" table.
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Jinhopark,
Well, from your described itinerary, you come VERY close to Jessup. Jessup is the next town down from Elkridge, south on US Route 1. From your Elkridge plant (doesn't matter where in Elkridge, it is a pretty small place), you are no more than 5 minutes from where we play in Jessup. 5 Minutes from Timbuktu as well.
You seem to eat at 2 of the best places for crabcakes as well. (G&M is the best, imho)
Let me know the next time you are in town, we can meet for some foos. Are you usually in town only during the week, or are you in town on the weekend as well?
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You can always just set up the table, clean it up, and play "as-is", until you get the parts to upgrade it.
That way you and your kids can get your "fix" without having to pay for shipping. Foosball.com doesn't have a storefront, but we could probably work something out. place your order with Jimmie, I can get your parts from him when I see him (usually once per week, at least) and I can get them to you when you are in town.
Pat
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definately clean it, silicone it, and play like heck until you get new parts Pat is right
I am 99.99% certain Jim doesn't have Merkel rods and nearly as certain Charles does
i always recommend buying from Jim when you can because he provides the forum where you get all the helpful information
but there are a couple exceptions when Charles has something Jim doesn't (rare)...I like them both, they are great foosball people...big differences are, Jim has the forum and his website is easier to use but Jim doesn't sell tables (anymore at least for now) and Charles is the biggest distributor of Tornado in the country
anyway, get your table up and running and have fun while you wait and go have crabcakes and meet some good foos people and play your brains out
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Yeah I'll try and get the legs on, level it and get it cleaned this weekend...the only things stopping me is I can't find my roll pin punch, the plastic bearing wrench, rod lube, and I think I mentioned this coin-op did not come with any balls... I found a stash of old Tornado balls while trying to search for the other stuff... The balls are about 8 years old and pretty gunky and nasty, but I think definitely useable. What is the best way to clean Tornado balls?
Sheesh between talking about lubing rods and cleaning balls...this response could easily be posted on some adult website. LOL! Sorry it's late.
Pat, I typically come to Maryland during the work week and I will typically stay for 3 days and 2 nights...sort of a no-frills business trip due to the fact I know no one in Maryland (born and raised in the Midwest)...other than a couple of friends that went to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, which is one of the most BEAUTIFUL cities in the US in the fall. I have to say if I am ever fortunate enough to play foos with you Maryland guys, please keep in mind I am a complete rookie and not a representative of Chicago Foosball...which has some awesome tourney players.
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for the pin punch you can use a counter sink, if you don't have one you can pick one up at the hardware store for a couple bucks...
the hex wrench is not a deal breaker either, you can either use your hand or if it is too tight, use a good size pair of Arc Plyers http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00945384000P?vName=Tools&cName=Hand+Tools&sName=Pliers
you don't need to spend that kind of money, hopefully you have some tools around the house...anyway, get creative, don't tell me a large nut is going to side track you
or of course you could borrow these from a local player or even the bar that hosts the weekly DYP
ball cleaning - easiest thing to do is to put all of them in a sock and stick them into the washer with as hot a water as possible and laundry soap and when they are done, stick them in the dryer (maybe with a towel so they don't clunk clunk you to insane) and put the temp as hot as possible and dry the crap out of them
this should make a very big difference...the other way or maybe a second step if you the first way didn't provide enough...is to take them one ball at a time in the sink, dish soap and a green pad and scrub scrub scrub...I did this for the last good sized tournament we ran for 4 tables...my hands were raw but the balls were nice
you may wonder how good they are coming out when you scrub them by hand but when they dry they really perk up
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Got the balls cleaned via the washer... I can't believe it actually worked! We have one of those higher end front load steam assist washers, that have the EXTREME sanitizing heat settings. I did a load of whites and put each individual ball in it's own sock, and some of the balls managed to find it's way out and they actually got cleaned ever so slightly better. The ones that remained in the sock got a very,very light layer of lint stuck to it and looked a tiny bit dingier still. So for those looking to the laundry route, it works but I recommend just putting the balls loosely in there (as long as your significant other approves)...lot's of banging going on, and plus the hottest/sanitizing settings are typically the longest (ours is almost 90 minutes long).
Anyways, I was going to put the legs on the table, but the kids just loved playing on the table on the floor. I have 4 kids aged from 1-9 years old and the problem with the height of the table is it is at a dangerous level for small kids, and those rods (especially the 2 man) can be moved quite aggressively and extend out pretty far when playing a competitive game...and of course small inquisitive children naturally want to see what all the raucous is all about. Anyways I'm sure you get the point, so I may need to invest in a small kids only foos table for them...
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it can be trouble, you want to teach safety with the kids...when mine were little (they are 26 and 27 now) i built a bench for them out of 2x4 and plywood...it was as long as the inside of the table legs so it could be pushed under the table when not in use and it was about 2 feet wide...don't remeber the height so well, probably 12+ inches...just figure what the youngest will need to be at the right height to play
again, stress safety, its all a lot of fun until someone shoots their eye out :P
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Foosball.com doesn't have a storefront, but we could probably work something out. place your order with Jimmie, I can get your parts from him when I see him (usually once per week, at least) and I can get them to you when you are in town.
Pat
Pat:
Hmmmm... I have a really tight schedule for my next Maryland trip and I'll be flying in at 10am EST on Thursday December 3rd and flying out at 2pm EST on Friday December 4th. I wonder if I can work out something with Jimmie to purchase all my parts online and then personally pick it all up at the warehouse from about 10:30am-11am on December 3rd? Do you think he'll mind??? It should be a pretty significant order, which pretty much lists out all of bbtuna's suggestions (minus rods, which I will probably get from Charles) and probably some extra foosball doo-dads... Does Jimmie have a direct email or phone number that he can be reached at? Thanks!
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Jinhopark,
That window might be a little tight for him. Since the foosball.com warehouse is about a 30 minute drive from his regular 9-5 job.
But maybe something can be worked out. You have to return to your hotel sometime that night ;)
You can reach Jim at jim@foosball.com
Pat
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Pat:
Yes I definitely have to go back to my hotel...and would absolutely LOVE to meet up with him later in the night. I am working until 8:30pm'ish that night, and didn't want to inconvenience him that late. I'll definitely contact him before my trip. Thanks so much!
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Darn, just got around to calling Charles about those Merkel rods...he said they are all long gone, until John decides to start making them again... Says he hasn't had any for a little while now.
Oh well looking forward to my Baltimore trip this coming Thursday, hopefully I can find time and hook up with Jim and get most of my parts from him. Although I probably won't be able to get any new rods and the side strips, might be a little awkward on my flight back home to bring them on as carry-on.
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Just purchased my first wave of foosball goods from Jim at foosdirect in Maryland. I have to say, my boys and I are customers for life there, and they went above and beyond to meet all my needs. In less than 48hrs they answered all my questions, bundled everything together and packaged it so it was ready by the time I got there to personally pick up all the items. Extremely pleased with how everything was handled and I cannot praise them enough. Major kudos to them and many thanks for keeping this very informative forum up and running.
My older boys can't wait to get everything together and start playing...
BTW, they even had a handful of 2 man Merkel rods...which as far as I know, no one else has them in stock...now if I could just find the other 6 Merkel rods in new or mint condition...
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Hmmmm... I noticed that the wooden handles on my older HM2000 were much different than the grey marble coin-op that I bought, and obviously very different than the newest version handle that my buddy brought over. Take a look see...
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/4165464702_a41a9d9e09_m.jpg)
The oldest handle looks very skinny at the neck end compared to the other 2 handles...and the length of the 2 wooden handles are the same, but the newest plastic handle is about 1/8" shorter and much more rounded on the end. Interesting design changes through the years.
I keep forgetting to ask about the newest bumpers... You stated before that the newest bumper mold was a little wider than the previous version, which is why they decided to move to a thinner bearing. Having said that should I have also bought the newest bumpers to keep the guy pushed out a where he should be? I'm a little confused as to why I would need new bearings if I have the older thinner bumpers in conjunction with my older wider bearings?
Let me try to explain (I hope I understood everything correctly), would'nt the "older thinner bumpers + the older wider bearings" = "newer wider bumpers + newer thinner bearings" and have the same offset from the playing field side wall? So when I eventually replace my older wider bearings with the newer thinner bearings, and I continue to use my older thinner bumpers, won't my guys be too close to the wall? So the only way to correct this might have been either buy all newer fatter bumpers, or just keep my old stuff... I am probably making this sound a lot more confusing than it needs to be. I hope it makes sense.
Is it preferential, when playing, to have the guys closer to the side playing field?
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bearings and bumpers - the new bearing will work fine with the old or new bumpers, it is not necessary to change bumpers but as you need to change them, it will be best to already have the new bearings in place
they didn't do anything on purpose to change the play characteristics with the new half bearings, same inside, only the face of it has changed, but i would swear it made a positive impact on the play on my buddies table
with the handles, you are missing the plastic ones that look a little like the new ones but they were fatter still and they are hard and slick...easily my least favorite handle...i really like the new ones
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Well, from your described itinerary, you come VERY close to Jessup. Jessup is the next town down from Elkridge, south on US Route 1. From your Elkridge plant (doesn't matter where in Elkridge, it is a pretty small place), you are no more than 5 minutes from where we play in Jessup. 5 Minutes from Timbuktu as well.
Let me know the next time you are in town, we can meet for some foos. Are you usually in town only during the week, or are you in town on the weekend as well?
Pat:
I was just in town the past few days and I mentioned to a few co-workers in Elkridge that in the summer that I was planning on staying the weekend to play foosball on an upcoming summer trip, and they all looked at me like I was crazy... One of them finally came out and mentioned to me that Jessup is known for their prison or something, and everyone started laughing and wondered if I planned on playing foosball against the prisoners. They mentioned that there were only 3 things worth mentioning in Jessup, the McDonald's, the Starbucks in the strip mall and the prison which is across the street. Unfortunately I couldn't talk any co-workers into joining me in playing foosball, but everyone wants to hear the stories of when I do play in Jessup...obviously everyone got a kick out of my story.
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Yeah, Jessup has had that reputation. It (the reputation) is getting better though. It used to be..."Jessup, oh yeah where the prison is". But the area is definitely changing. It is not a bad area. Heck, it is essentially 4 stoplights along route 1. It is probably more well known for the HUGE truck stop that for anything else. But now there are condos going up, nice townhomes, shopping centers, etc. AND there is a location with foosball just North of "Jessup" in a poolhall now (we can call it Elkridge, not really sure where Elkridge ends and Jessup begins... :)
BUT, if you are going to be in town around the weekend of May 16th, you could always checkout the Maryland State Foosball Championships. It is NOT in Jessup, it is actually about 30 minutes north. Lots of great players will be in attendance, and lots of foosball to be played!
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Pat:
Oh yeah my co-workers did mention that there was a huge truck stop there as well...but to be honest with you (at least in the midwest) a truck stop + a prison does not usually equate to a town I would normally want to visit...lol! What is the name of the poolhall? Jim says there is a "safer" place in Annapolis where some of the younger foosers gather to play.
Hmmm...the MD State Foosball Championships sounds interesting...I may have to schedule one of my trips around that.