We have a guy, up here in the NW, that has one of the most solid hard pull kicks I've seen, ever! We call him Turk, his name is Allen Turner. He's got it dialed in. Don't even begin to try to race it, just split your time between long and tweener and hope he doesn't dink you. I see you are going to the NW tournament so you might run into him. He is a great guy, might be dressed up as one of the "Blues Brothers" with his buddy and doubles partner, Rich Fosner (Foz). If you meet him I know he would give you some pointers on how he does his shot. I hope I can make it too, depending on if I'm working and my wife does her vacation without me(then I play) or if I am not working (and then I go on a trip with her) a toss up,,, If I am there I'll show you some real old school back pin stuff. These Fireball tables are too much fun when going backpin!