Topic: Stick or Brush

[Old Meister]

Playing a tournament last night I found again that my passing was my weakest point but I had been practicing the stick pass as shown on the Pappas video and DUH, finally I thought to use it. My brain shuts down sometimes. Well I like it, it worked well even on the better players and so simple. I guess the KISS(keep it simple stupid) method applies. No I didn't win. After a 30 year lay-off I will  take any victory I can. I've also been working on the brush but it's not reliable yet. I'd like to know your thoughts on the benefits, strengths, of each and how effective. Oh yeah, that palm push was killer, more than one comment on that.

[bbtuna]

advantages and disavantages for Brush vs Stick has been, can you imagine  , discussed before

I know Gummy talks about it but I know there is more...it may be wrapped in a discussion about the 5 man, I will start looking there but I will find it

I could tell you what I think but it has more power if you here it from well known ProMasters

I poked around a little tonight but didn't find what I wanted quickly, I will try and find it tomorrow

eventually, I think the best players can do both...one as a base and the other mixed in to keep things honest

both have a long rich winning tradition, you can find some of the best 5 men of all times on both lists so it comes down eventually to what fits your style best and what you do naturally best

brush before the ball touches the wall or an off the wall brush (this used to be much more popular than it is today)

as long as your developing something from scratch, you might want to consider if you want to do far side or near side or eventually do like Tom Spear and do both interchangably at will (as far as I know the only well known 5 bar to ever practice this regularly)

I think these series to to pick from as your base series
Brush (before touch the wall)
Stick (drag style and tic tac - eventually you need both if this is your series)
Tic Tac
Chip (very hard to do on Tornado used to be very popular on TS - I hear there are a few good ones out there, I just haven't had the pleasure of seeing them and none of the top top players do it as a base series)
Brush (after touching the wall)
Hybred (Brush both before and after wall), Stick, Tic Tac (this is my favorite to watch, Johnny Horton has the best I have seen - when it is on, it is something to watch, his ball control is sick)

[bbtuna]

here is the first thing, read this thread, good stuff

http://foosballboard.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6143

[bbtuna]

okay, I found what I was looking for much faster than I thought

part one is the discussion above in the link I left in the previsous post

part 2 is the following post

http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=1554.0

I would write these out but the posts would be crazy long...if you really want to know, you will print and save this stuff, review, reread, practice, and come back and ask more questions

there is a post with a bunch of stuff from ICE I will add tomorrow but now I am going to bed

[Old Meister]

A good read for sure! I am ready for it now, not when you first posted about this on that other thread. Little by little the pieces of the puzzle come together for me. I know my game will keep on changing/growing but I get little hints on how effective my old play still is. It's just that these kids are riding on the shoulders of all those who came before and what was a newly learned revelation then is old hat now. Thanks Bbtuna, you came through with the goods again. Good info,,,

[MR.STEVE]

Ok the stick pass or tic tac  ;Dwhen your moveing the ball back and forth the most important thing is to watch your opponents man as you move so will they as soon as you get them out of sync fire it wall or middle you must tic tac at different speeds stop start ,watch Tony Speedsrman on thisweekinfoosball pay close attention to his movements and his opponets. Brush passes work great but dont forget to mix up the two with a quick pass to your 3 ron middle guy. All passes work good you just have to choose the right one...

[bbtuna]

OM,

thanks, this is stuff, like most I have created, that is rich with learning and worth reading more than once because you see new things each time


Mr. Steve
read Dave Gummerson on the use of the drag stick and the tic tac stick - most mortals (everyone except Tony) need both...Tony has the best tic tac stick ever but he is a total freak and unless you can get that kind of control, and keep it even when the pressure grows, you will want to lean VERY heavy on Gummy because there is no better stick passer in this generation (setting Tony aside as a freak of course)

Tony is to be marveled at and even copied a little at some level but unless you have his talent and put in the kind of work he did growing up then that series, done his way, won't serve most people in all the circumstances needed in highly competitive foosball

the reason the first generation of players had such simple series (relative to today) was to eliminate unneeded risk and they were aware that under heavy pressure it is harder to execute

If you use a system that requires a very high degree of precision your chances for making an error increase and that chance for error increases exponentially as the pressure increases.  Look what happened even to Tony in his first World Doubles semi final and then again the next year when he had some of the same issues.

I think he has gotten control of that but again he is a freak...

the principle is that the more precision/detail the higher chance for error and the chance for error increases exponentially as pressure increases.