Topic: PRACTICE - Repetition is the Mother of Genius

[bbtuna]

TODD LOFFREDO ON PRACTICE PART 2

What do you recommend a player who is just starting out practice?

ANSWER: Ball control... Lots of it...   Learn to do circles with the ball and to tap the ball from man to man and to catch the ball from side to side smoothly without tapping it. To pin the ball from man to man in the front pin and the back pin.. To weave the ball on the five man like this.. Starting from the first man going toward the far wall push the ball towards the second man and let the ball go behind the second man and in front of the third man and behind the fourth man and in front of the fifth man and then reverse it.. Then when you get bored with that, practice tapping the ball on the five man with different patterns starting with the 1 or first man on the fiveman..1-3-2-4-3-5 or 2-1-3-2-4-3 and so on.. Use your imagination..

I use to practice like this often and it is great for your control and will help you later when you want to learn new things and also helps make you smooth.

[bbtuna]

TODD LOFFREDO ON PRACTICE PART 3

How many hours do you practice a week?

ANSWER: Right now not very much.. maybe 3 hours a week but when a big tournament rolls around I put more energy into it. 20 hours a week when I was younger for a few years.. There need to be a time when you eat and drink and sleep foosball in order to master the game I believe.. At least for me..

[bbtuna]

skip over my long replys but don't skip the quotes by Todd...like the thread on passing I will say, don't give up on this, lets keep at this thread and provide a helpful source for us and others in the days ahead...again, i have more from others on this subject and will take the time to put it together if I know you all want it...you all, we all, have ideas and experiences that can help the foosball community, lets get at it..."dude" (read your own emphasis into that)

[bbtuna]

Dave Gummerson on Practice Part 1

Here is my 2 cents. It's important when practicing to have identified a few things before you start and have a plan for what you want to accomplish.

The first thing I would do is to make an honest self assessment of your game. You can do this both by asking other people who know your strengths and weaknesses as well as using what you know about yourself. Once you've identified what you need to work on make a plan for what you realistically want to accomplish and by when. I have very limited time available to practice and get out and play to get ready for a tournament so when I do play, I need to make the best possible use of that time. It's important to identify your strengths and weaknesses so that you can address them in your practice plans.

You want to minimize your weaknesses and maximize your strengths by working on both. If you have a great long pull and a weak inside you need to address that in your practice routine.  Maybe your game is very mechanically sound but you have trouble with your timing or reading defenses.  If you practice by yourself 2-3 hours working on your 5-man and shots what have you done to address the timing issue? Here is a quick example: Say your not real quick from rod to rod and get beat in the transition game in singles. What would be the best way to minimize or improve this weakness? Obviously the best way would be to find a player that excels in this area and play them in singles as much as possible.  I believe it's also important to maintain your strengths though so when your playing this person it doesn't mean you need to speed your game up if you have a slower style game. Use your strengths and play your style of game when playing this person in singles and your hand speed will naturally improve just by playing this person. It's adapt or lose and believe me you will get tired of losing. Especially if your a competitive person.

I believe the most important part of any practice schedule is to plan it out and have the discipline to follow through. There are a lot of good drills and ideas out there on how to practice and what to practice. The key is following through with those plans and to constantly re-evaluate your game and know what your strengths and weaknesses are. First you need to identify what your strengths and weaknesses are, then and only then can you find the most efficient way to impact those areas.

Look at it this way. Envision a group of people cutting their way through the jungle with machetes. They are cutting their way through the undergrowth and clearing it out. Then someone climbs a tree, surveys the situation and yells, "wrong jungle!" How does the group respond? "Shut up! we're making progress." The point is a lot of foosers are too busy cutting through the undergrowth to even realize they're in the wrong jungle.

Kind of a long winded explanation but it's something I read that I think really makes the point  "Take the time to evaluate what your own personal needs are on the table. Then come up with your plan to address them and continuously re-evaluate those needs."   There is a million different practice drills and ideas out there. The important thing is finding the ones that work for you specifically and using those.

[bbtuna]

Dave Gummerson on Practice Part 2 , 3/11/06


Practicing long hours without some predetermined goals and objectives at best is not an efficient use of your time. At worst it can be a complete waste of time and even hurt your game.

It's easy when your fairly new to the game to spend countless hours working on various aspects of your game. With every new day comes new discoveries and hopefully improvements in your game. After years of playing I find it very difficult to find the motivation to practice a lot or at all.

Here are some things to keep in mind to help motivate you to practice and some other ideas/drills to work on.

1. Schedule your practice time. Have a predetermined time that you intend to practice with specific things you want to work on. In the past I've used a timer to keep track of how long I'm spending on different parts of my game.

2. Take the time to make a list of areas of your game you want to work on and come up with a plan on how your going to improve those areas. If your not sure what your areas of opportunity are ask a local PM or someone you play with regularity to critique your game. You may find that you don't know your game as well as you thought you did.

3. Invite someone that’s a little better to practice with. I find myself more motivated to practice something after I've been blocked well or drilled on something. There’s nothing better then being humbled to stoke those competitive flames.

4. Use drills that are little mini competitions with yourself like having to hit 10 lane passes in a row before going on to the next thing. If you miss one you start over. You would be surprised at the little extra pressure that puts on you to make every pass or shot count. This also helps develop those good habits.

5. Break your practice sessions into smaller chunks of time. This allows you to maintain a fresh outlook and better focus during the entire time your practicing. If you start losing focus take a break and come back to it after a small break. This also simulates tournaments a little better since all weekend long is filled with short periods of playing with short and potentially long breaks in between.

6. Use a combination of drills to build muscle memory with timing drills where you are sitting on the ball for different lengths of time.

7. Have someone stand at the end of the table with the defense set-up so that all 3 main holes are open on your given shot. Have that person call out random holes at different lengths of time, Then try and shoot that hole as quickly after it is called as possible while still executing. It's harder then it sounds. You can even do this drill by yourself by setting the ball up and visualizing the defense moving in and out of certain holes and then shooting on it at various different timing counts.

8. Watch a foos video and make notes of different aspects of some of the PM's games that you like. Then go to your table and work on some of the things you saw. It's always easier to practice something when you have a mental image of what it is your trying to work on.

The bottom line is there is not a set number of hours that are too many or too few but, how you use that time to your benefit. It's possible to get more out of a hour then 3 hours if you go about it with the right mindset. If you can be enthusiastic and focused for several hours in a row then go for it. If you find that you get bored, tired or sore then take some breaks.

This probably sounds obvious but, it helps if it's fun and not a chore. Good luck and keep it fun and productive.

[bbtuna]

my comments on length of time spent practicing

5 minutes of bad practice is too much and counter productive in most cases which is why I said,

"No you can't practice too much unless you are practicing wrong"

When you get to the level you ("you" meaning Gummerson) are at, the amount of time becomes less important because you can put in less time and maintain and you can put in smart time and learn things much faster. 

However, if someone were to compare you to a person just starting out and lets assume you are both going to learn something new – the same something.  I expect your learning curve to be much shorter because you have a lot of previous learning to draw on.  You have muscle memory, tournament wisdom, practice experience, etc to draw on which helps you learn.

I don’t care how smart a person’s practice is, if they only practiced as often as you do now (what, less than 5 hours a week right, I contend they will never reach top PM level.  I don’t think it is possible.

A person will make the best of his practice to do things like you mention in your post but, without quantity at some time in their development, they will, I propose, never get to the top level - this is why Todd Loffredo said, "20 hours a week when I was younger for a few years.. There needs to be a time when you eat and drink and sleep foosball in order to master the game I believe.. At least for me.. "

more time isn't better if the time is bad time but more time which is good, is always better than less time

[Samsonite]

What are your goals? I'm 52 and have only been playing foos about 1.5 years and have shown a lot of progress and potential. I guess my goal is to be a fearful oponent to anyone who with thier hands on the opposite rods as mine.

How often do you practice? Every day

How long do you practice? 1-2 hours during the week and as much as three hours a dy on weekends

What kind of things do you do during practice and what have you found most helpful and least helpful? 5-bar control, passing, catching, 3-bar shots, goalie (2-bar) shots. A lot of ball control with the 3-bar working it from the front pin to the back pin position and a lot of wall and Tic-Tac action. I usually include about 10 minutes af just knocking the ball around the table trying to keep the ball moving quickily around the table and trying to catch it with the 5-bar and three bar and quickly passing forward with the goalie rods. This really seems to increase my time of posession

What level player do others think you are and do you agree?  With this in mind, how much time do you spend on ball control?  If you do ball control practice, what kind of things do you do? I think most local players think of me as a very good Amateur and I agree. I spend a lot of time on ball control. My practice regiment is described in the previous question.

I can honestly say that I had a good shooting game before I had good ball control. You can have the greatest shot in the world but it won't do any good if you never get the ball in your posession.

[bbtuna]

Samsonite 

thanks, good post

good luck, keep after it...increase your practice each chance you get, you game will follow the improvement curve after a time
 
 

[foozkillah]

ReMiFaSolLahTi:

PRACTICE - WITH A PRO or PROMASTER is ....

the MotherF**R of Genius.  ...

and .... the FatherF**R, too!   

[thebodygroove]

Circles – ever seen Fred do his shot where he circles the ball (either direction) Jim Stevens coined it the “helicopter” and then in the middle of those circles with no changes in motion he picks up the ball and slams it home either direction…

Watch this vid at 3:07: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0iqwmG_sFI

[Samsonite]

My Improvement Curve is not by any means a smooth one but fortunately it is a steady increase from month to month.

If it was to be drawn on a graph it would have a steady increase for a couple months then start leveling out through a week or so then it actually decreases and I feel kinda burnt out and take a break from practice or playing for 2-4 days. When I come back to the table after the break my level of play begins at a higher level than it ever was previously then starts a curve upward from that point and repeats itself.

The curve is a little flatter now that I have been at it for a year and a half but my skill level is still at a steady increase and follows the same upward line with a slight drop at the end. What I need now is to play more foosers that are at a higher skill level. Practice can only do so much.
                             
When I started playing summer before last almost everyone was better than me and now not as many. I think I will have to go to some out of town tourneys to excelerate my playing level. The only way is to play people better than me.

We have some great foosers in the Spokane area but the best ones (pros and Pro Masters) don't come out and play as much as others and I don't get to play them as much as I would like. Like Larry & Lotus Chesbrough, Jack Lenty, Kathy Brainard. If only they were my neighbors and could get on the table with them a couple times a week I'd be in business.

[bbtuna]

Samsonite,

that is good...I have watched more than one player in my area go from totaly bar scrub to well rounded tournament competitive upper level rookies in less than 3 years...this may not sound like much but the kind of talent range in the Rookie/Amature class is huge

I have watched my own game change and mature and I see several players right now locally whos games are going through some major transformations

it is great, i love the game, love people who love it, and am stoked about seeing people get better and there is nothing I won't do for them or tell them to help...can't say it is always helpful but I have seen enough to know I can help newer players

by the way, few improvement curves I have seen are smooth...good luck, your game will improve much faster the better competition you can find...gotta practice on your own 1 to 2 hours a day but also find better players to hang with

not having top flight players to kick around with week after week as definately stunted my growth...we have a few top flight players here I just don't hang with them...I am thinking about seeing if I can change that...

anyway, great to hear from you, good luck and keep in touch with the board and let us know how you progress...lots of info on the board and people who will answer questions so if you run into stuff, bring it back here

have a good holiday

[BigJBrewGuy]

What are your goals?
To do something better after practice than I did before; and to maintain what little skill I have.  I need to become a better forward so I can be more competitive when I draw another goalie in the local DYP.

How often do you practice?
Not often enough; Maybe 4 times a week.

How long do you practice?
30-45 minutes

What kind of things do you do during practice and what have you found most helpful and least helpful?
I start on the 5 bar with some ball control and move into passing.  Mostly trying to get some more speed on my pass and kicking it harder from my 5 to my 3. (bbtuna can confirm how incredibly slow my pass is)  Then I go into practicing my roll over.  I'm still working on getting both sides down.  I practice mostly forward stuff, as that's the part of my game that needs the most work.

What level player do others think you are and do you agree?  With this in mind, how much time do you spend on ball control?  If you do ball control practice, what kind of things do you do?
I think others see me as someone easliy beaten in singles or when I'm playing forward, but may have to think some more as a forward against my goalie.  I'd agree with that.  I have little to no forward game, but as a goalie with a decent forward, I've made some pretty good opposing forwards sweat a little.

I'm pretty content with my goalie game right now.  I'd really like to get my forward game improved some to be more competitive on a rookie level.  I've only been playing more competitively for about a year now (just over I think) and am just having a lot of fun playing.  If I can get my forward game caught up to my goalie game, I'll start to work on both more evenly.