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Blocking a long pull

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Offline MR.STEVE

  • 117
  • slowhand
Blocking a long pull
« on: June 16, 2011, 10:13:55 AM »
Im haveing trouble blocking a long pull, now I do show a middle a little straight and still the long gets by me even a weak pull ...whats a old guy to do??

 even a fast shuffle no matter what I try...

Offline Joel

Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 11:10:55 AM »
I would recommend using a reverse defense (see pic below) and angle the 2-bar's front toe towards his 3-bar. This will force him to square off a long pull. This reverse defense does leave open the deadman; however, most rookies will not be able to shoot that consistently.

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Offline Will17

  • 264
Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 07:15:28 PM »
Without any detail on what the shooter is doing, I'm assuming that he is pounding the long, and either timing you, or more likely, not even worrying about where you are and just ripping longs without looking at the defense while he is shooting.

A lot of times, when a person has an unraceable long, and is accurate with it, the defender is not in the right position for it. A lot of players, even top pro players on tour, will shoot into your goalie man if you just leave it in the long, for about 5 seconds. Most defenses dont actually cover the long even 1/5th of the time. So if you shoot long, the goal is open 80% of the time, and its a goal. A good shooter, whether shooting a rollover or a pull, can put the ball in the back of the net faster than you can race or react, no matter who you are. Try to think of it like the guy has a gun pointed at the long - all he has to do is pull a trigger and the shot is instant. If you aren't in front of it, the bullet is in the net... same thing with a good pull shot. The best way is to trick the player into shooting the long into you when you are already there.

If someone is having a lot of success pounding the long on you, they will probably shoot it as soon as your man is covering the long, because he is expecting you to move really soon. It is uncomfortable to leave the net wide open and just sit on the long for 5-10 seconds. Sometimes you can just sit on it and they will shoot into you, other times you need to be smarter. I'll assume again that the guy is timing really well.

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Put your goalie man on the long, and your 2 bar covering the strait to middle area. Now the forward is looking, and staring right at your goalie man, because as soon as you move, he is going to pound the shot. It is essential for your goalie man to be perfectly still for a bait like this, because if its is wiggling around the shooter wont be as jumpy when you do the bait. Now, whenever you feel he is ready to shoot, just flick your goalie backwards really hard. If the shooter is reading in the style I described, he will certainly shoot a long right into your man.

There is a solid chance that what I described won't work, but it is hard to give advice on defense without much detail on the shot. Try it, it can't hurt too much. Might get you an extra few blocks a game.

Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 12:03:55 AM »
From the standard D with the goalie camped out for the long (as it were for me,check YOUR thus described positioning) I now "camp" with the goalie shaded back toward the near wall (middle) slightly. A perfectly executed fast squared off long pull will score, however, I'll trade that for more blocks of sprays, middles,cut backs, etc.   

Offline MR.STEVE

  • 117
  • slowhand
Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 12:01:09 PM »
most pull shooters in this area are not expert pull shooters but can shoot a long I think the advice you gave will help alot I just need to remember to use it.
thanks guys ..

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 12:38:41 AM »
is it a spray to the long hole or is it a squared off long?  if it is a spray the reverse can get in pull shooters head but you have to be committed to it because they will often try and break you from using it early, even rookies, by shooting a straight or a slide dink

regardless of if you are using a reverse, standard, or a switching defense, here are a few thoughts of mine on defense…can’t say this is all universal, but it is all true in my world…this is not very well organized but here it is…

     NO FEAR – most important thing, BY FAR, that I have learned about becoming a good goalie is having no fear at any point when the shooter has the ball.  It is the shooters job to get into the head of the goalie and it is the goalies job to get into the head of the shooter.  If the shooter is winning, the goalie is anxious (afraid) and worried, guessing which hole the shooter may be going after or knowing the hole and being afraid they can’t get to the hole before the shooter does.  Be totally unafraid of the shooter scoring any shot, straight counts the same as middle or long...most people defend afraid and you have to become an unflappable defender.
     FEAR…is False Evidence Appearing Real .  I mean, what’s going to happen to you, you aren’t going to be shot or hurt physically so who cares.  The point is moved across by the other team regardless of where the ball goes in the goal so don’t get uptight about them scoring a straight - most beginners and rookies and many much further along have an unreasonable worry (fear) about the shooter getting a straight on them.  Think about it, if you are committed to not letting the pull shooter get a straight, then you are basically covering the rest of the goal with one man.
     If you can not get to a hole before the shooter does, almost always a long, then the answer is to be in that hole before the shooter gets starts his shot.  This is connected with the last entry in my list.
*    Defensive series – each time the shooter gets the ball, start your defense right away from the second they get the ball.  Defend against trick and quick shots.  Good shooters will look for patterns or obvious holes you leave open while they set up their shot so use this time to create defenses and planned randomness that will keep them from seeing patterns, guard against quick/trick shots, bait them for later, and last and most important, start getting them to think about what defense you will be showing them when they get the ball set up.
     The shooter will start to think about the options they have depending on your defense and any timing they need to score the second they see what you are offering.  As an example, if you start to show them a reverse D, they should be thinking, straight, slider, squared off long, and a rolling pull.  So, if  you do this for the first 3-5 seconds the shooter is setting up, then they are running through options in their head and timing but then if after a few seconds, you change to a different defense, it will make them pause mentally and then start to inventory their options on the other defense.  This can mess with their head which is your goal.  CAUTION – don’t do this every time, don’t do this with the same timing every time, and don’t always move from A to B.  Mix this up, like all things in your defensive (and offensive for that matter) you want to create planned randomness.  You need to make it so that you are unpredictable.
*  Most goalies work from the short hole out to the long hole and use the first and second/third holes as home base and either sort of shuffle their men a little, or a lot, and wait for the shooter to start and then try and get to the long hole.  Even though you are moving, this is still a RACE defense.  That’s off my point, the important thing here is that the goalie is working from the inside (short holes) to the outside (long holes).  Consider some times running a series of your defense from the outside to the inside using the long holes as home base.  This will help  you get used to having men past the big dot and in the long hole.  An Aside:  don’t make it a reverse RACE and try and race the shooter to the straight because if you make it tempting enough even a dedicated long shooter will go for the straight and it is near impossible to race a straight.
* view all holes as equally important...that doesn't mean block them all the same for all shooters, if someone only shoots longs there is no need to spend much effort cover straight...the point is some people, especially beginners/rookies, will stick a guy on the straight because they don't like being scored on the straight, it makes them feel stupid or whatever...if you do this, you are placing an unrealistic emphasis on the straight and you are not treating all holes as equal
* learn to make the goal look as small as possible....set up different positions with your men and step around the other side of the table and look and see what the shooter sees...think about the positions you see when people defend you and which ones bother you most.  Ask people what things bother them…study and learn how men’s positions make people feel.  Men toed in, toed out, in the 1.5 hole and 3.75, or 2 and 4, etc.
*  PLANNED RANDOMNESS - avoid patterns with your men...you want "planned randomness"...otherwise shooters will time you
*  be willing to stop a man in a hole and not move it for ½ second to 2, 3, or even 4 seconds at super random times
*  have AT LEAST 4 or approaches, reverse 1, standard 1, switching 1, etc……mix these as needed
*  have a slow defense, have a fast defense, have a nearly stopped defense and be able to move from one to the other
*  ZONE, PERCENTAGES, TENDENCIES, SPECIFICS – move through these progressively as you get to know a player or team.
   - ZONE, when you are defending a 3 bar offense, is positioning your men so that standard holes are open but very small and so hard to hit…this is enough to mess with some shooters…this comes from knowing how your men positioned in the goal makes a shooter feel as talked about above.  Especially with the more rookie/beginner they are, make them prove they can hit shots over and over.  With some people, this is enough to out them.  Side note:  I have found that with beginners and rookie rookies it is better not to move around too much so they can’t get lucky…make them have to hit a shot and some times they will accidentally shoot at your man and if you move too much, you will move out of their way.  Make them prove what they can do.
   - PERCENTAGES is what most shooters do and can refer to a shooters patterns…as an example, most pull shooter favor longs and ignore straights.  But if you watch a specific shooter and they shoot longs 90% of the time, you will only need to worry about the straight 10% of the time which in turn means, you probably want to spend 90% of your time in or near the long hole
   - TENDENCIES….like if you show a reverse to a pull shooter they have a tendency to shoot a straight or slider (if they know anything at all) within the first 2 or 3 times they face the defense.  In doing this, the shooter hopes he/she can ‘break’ the defender and stop them from using that reverse defense as soon as possible because it messes with their head….oh, by the way, I rarely show a reverse with a dead man defense because most pull shooters who can square off a long, will have an unreasonable confidence that they can beat that long or go dead man on you (this is a tendency by the way) and so I always use the outside man, the 22, to cover the long hole because most shooters lose that unreasonable confidence and can’t get a good read on where that man is in the goal (this is also a tendency).  The longer you play, the more of these tendencies you learn.
   -SPECIFICS are the actual details about a shooters habits…like I know several rollover shooters who when I show them a reverse will automatically shoot a long push side…again, this comes with experience (as long as you are learning and remembering as you go)
*    Ok last thing for now, this is a super basic thing and should be near the top of this list and is most related to the thread’s specific question.  I was playing goalie for Joe Rhodes years ago and was getting lit up from a pull shooter (long of course) and at one point Joe leaned over a whispered to me, “You are spending more time out of the long hole than you are spending in the hole”  This transformed my thinking in goalie and has lead to a number of the things I have talked about here.  But the I choose to say it like this…spend more time in the hole you want to block than you send spend out of it! 
     When you go into the hole, vary how long you stay there and some times fake like you are leaving the hole … this will keep the shooter from waiting until you get to the hole and shooting trusting you will be moving out of the hole by the time they get there.  Like with so many other things, remember it is planned randomness.  Be unpredictable about when you will be in the hole you are wanting to spend more time in and how much time you will spend in the hole each time you are in it.
     In racquetball, the only basic thing I can remember being taught was that after you hit the ball, run back to the center of the court because the center of the court is the best place to be, to get to the next ball your opponent hits.  The center of the court is “home base”.  Look at the hole you want to block as your home base and whenever you get out of it, remember you want to get back to it as soon as possible. 













Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 01:03:20 AM »
well said....wow!

Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 01:17:57 PM »
I just put a man there....  :o

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 02:03:14 PM »
gitablock simple joke is true and he should know being a world class goalie...put a man right in the hole or half in 80%-90% of the time and force the shooter to prove they can do something else...its different if you know the person can shoot all the holes then you have to work on a defense that opens and closes, baits, differnet holes...still, some principles remain the same...I know shooters who can shoot all the holes but they still favor certain holes and have other specific habits.  In those cases, you base how defend accordingly...only the best shooters in the world never or nearly never favor a hole or holes and will shoot anything at any time

Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 01:03:21 PM »
going to nats BB?

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Blocking a long pull
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 11:48:12 AM »
its painful but not at this time...I am going through a rough time financially and even though St Louis is only a stones throw away (I'm in KC) I can't go unless a miracle happens in the next 2 weeks