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Brad, I got an idea for Fireball

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Offline foozkillah

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Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 03:50:07 PM »
I had a thought, a moment of clarity, which are few and far between these days  ;), about what I miss about the feel of the older tables. I've come to the realization that something was lost when they balanced the men. We lost the torque that gave us feed back on our shots. Then the weight would shift from one side of the rod to the other(front and back) as you made your strike. Couple that with the lateral motion and there was a "feel" that you could identify and use. Now the balanced men don't produce that torque feel as both ends of the man cancel that out as they weigh the same. Kind of like the difference of feel between rack and pinion and power steering, feedback vs a disconnected action. I've tried some pencil lead placed in the groves on the Tornado men and then wrapped that with rubber bands. It did help some and the timing seemed better for me but of course it is a whole different ball game and would need time to get use to such a change. I still don't like the Tor foot shape but it was interesting.  Maybe that is one area of adjustment that could be explored if one were to make custom men,,, :)
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Unbalanced men? Then in singles you have to hold the 3 and/or 5 bars up to shoot? Might as well play in Europe then...
We used to use the pencil lead to BALANCE the men so they would stay up and not be susceptible to falling down from any
vibrations or shocks..
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Maybe a time machine back to the 70s and 80s for you? :)  This is a rare thing you're bringing up... Almost everyone of thousands of players get that "feel" pretty quickly, especially if they have a table they can practice on...  You sure this isn't a harbinger of some nerve damage?

Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:38 PM »
Hey 'Killa! I know why they did it but I still say something was lost. A little while ago the news talked about a planet that was like Earth. They could tell it was there and the size and distance because it caused the star to wobble a certain amount, a feed back. If it was 2 planets the same distance , same size and opposite from each other in orbit around that star, then they wouldn't have that wobble. I think I miss the wobble 'Killa ;D. Hey, we need to have food for thought don't we? Besides, I think I could be right. :o
The beauty is, with Fireball and the prospect of customizing our own rods we can check all these theories out, how sweet is that?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 05:32:11 PM by Old Meister »

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 10:51:09 PM »
Hey 'Killa! I know why they did it but I still say something was lost. A little while ago the news talked about a planet that was like Earth. They could tell it was there and the size and distance because it caused the star to wobble a certain amount, a feed back. If it was 2 planets the same distance , same size and opposite from each other in orbit around that star, then they wouldn't have that wobble. I think I miss the wobble 'Killa ;D. Hey, we need to have food for thought don't we? Besides, I think I could be right. :o
The beauty is, with Fireball and the prospect of customizing our own rods we can check all these theories out, how sweet is that?
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OM,
I'd just say, if you have a table... experiment with grips and stances and takeoffs (pitches)... Do that and you'll find out what players have found out over decades of play... how to shoot with feel.  I've played since the greentop TS and Deutscher-Meister days..  Mayhap I've been lucky that the cities and countries I was playing in happened to have one or more amiable pros willing to teach and give tips to save me thousands of man-hours of wasted improper play.  I still can't believe you'd need unbalanced men to get back to some sort of "feel" from the feedback, unless you're beginning to suffer some kind of metacarpal effects like some of my foos buddies over the years who didn't get the chance to figure out the correct technical ways...  but those same pros... I first met Todd back in 78 in Cleveland, if memory serves.. I was drinking with Tony Gwynn and he happened to sit at our table.  His pull has been the same, technically correct (prolly close to perfect) for 3+ decades over so many table variants... no loss of feel ... that should give you the clue.
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I would never feel the need for changing the playing field (and simply cope when it does change)... I'd "figger it out!"  A lot of people even today get thrown by, for ex., having to play on old grey or brown marbles without the upgrade kit...  wall passes and bounces all get screwed up ... but once they bear down and figure out the difference, they adjust to it (at least most of them do.. there are a few who decide the table was royally screwed up even if they did play those marbles or earlier for decades and use it as the reason they lost)..
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In fact, one of the things I do like about tables changing in characteristic over the years is it gives oneself a reset.  Can one adjust back to normal play quickly enough?  And it kinda brings me back again and again to when I first started foosing.. it was suddenly new again! I may be unlike many, but I enjoyed it immensely when the browntop cokecan handles appeared, to screw up so many players used to the greentop/bluetop/DM's.. I didn't like the flimsy Dynamo's when they first appeared but I made myself like the new rubberized handles.. and I was thrown by the new Tornado's in 88 when I'd been used to playing the glasstop Tornado's and Hurricanes,,, but IT WAS LIKE STARTING OVER AGAIN!  It was and continues to be FUN!  Kinda like if a computer guy was a DOS God...  why not enjoy throwing all that away and learnign the Mac and Windows?  It's your choice, brother...  Comfy with your ole Blackberry or other smartphone? Ditch em and go IPhone or Droid.. it's like being a kid again, and again, and again!

Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2011, 09:27:21 AM »
Ouch! Didn't expect to get a lecture for trying to think outside of the box ??? If I wasn't feeling the shot I wouldn't have thought about it and wanted to play around with it. I'll never beat Spree, Pappas, or Freddy in a tournament. I'm 57 and enjoy playing and I have beat pro-masters a few times. Probably more luck than anything. But all in all I post here with a smile, tease a bit and enjoy talking it over. I don't get to play a lot due to my location and the price of gas but do like to stay connected, in some fashion, to the foos community. And since I've never had a smart phone or Blackberry, I do it here.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2011, 09:18:00 PM »
Ouch! Didn't expect to get a lecture for trying to think outside of the box ??? If I wasn't feeling the shot I wouldn't have thought about it and wanted to play around with it. I'll never beat Spree, Pappas, or Freddy in a tournament. I'm 57 and enjoy playing and I have beat pro-masters a few times. Probably more luck than anything. But all in all I post here with a smile, tease a bit and enjoy talking it over. I don't get to play a lot due to my location and the price of gas but do like to stay connected, in some fashion, to the foos community. And since I've never had a smart phone or Blackberry, I do it here.
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That's good and clear OM!  Thinking outside the box is rarely a bad idea.. I was just worried it could be something else.. like my buds John Grasso and LEon... they started talking in the same vein about the feel.. turned out it was physical nerve damage..
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And I also wanted to make sure for anyone who likes most change in their hobbies or sport of choice... enjoy it.. it's a reset... I'm sure all those superhuman PM's and legends wouldn't have minded no changes from the beginning.. but I like the changes .. just about all of them..

Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2011, 10:28:43 PM »
We're good bro! :)

Re: Brad, I got an idea for Fireball
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 08:54:23 PM »
Some of you 'Old Schooler's' might want to take a look at this. I think some of that old feel, the 'whip' feel is tied up in what I'm talking about. I tried it and then went back to balanced men and, well, I'd like someone else to try it and see if they notice what I'm talking about. Is it legal to add weight to men thus customizing the play to you?