Topic: New Owner Questions

[redbaronace]

New owner of a grey marble coin op.  Purchased it locally for $625 and appears to be in good shape besides missing the keys, having one player without a head, and the goals being very slightly blownout.  From what I have read, the blown out goals are a big deal and I will deal with them using the methods described here to keep it from getting worse.

For now, we are going to use it in our home for hopefully the next 10+ years.  We are all amateurs and do not plan to compete.

I am planning to use the super lube synthetic oil for lube. 
I also plan to use the included 20 footballs which came with the table.
The table will be converted to free play since it is at our home.

QUESTIONS:
1  Is this the best lube for keeping the rods slick?
2.  Also I saw that there was another lock inside the unit which I presume is for the money box.  Will the key which opens up the cabinet also open the money box?  I was told that often times one key can open up most if not all tornado coin op tables?
3.  Do the 2 piece plastic bearings wear out or do they just get replaced when they break?
4.  How do i know if i have the Merkel Rods
5.  What is the best method of determining if I have a bent rod besides spinning and seeing if any wobbling is present?
6.  Is using the Warrior ball on the Tornado Grey Marble table likely to improve our gaming experience?

Thanks

[bolt115]

Congrats on the table!

1.  I would stick with foos lube like what is sold on this website (it may be the same thing but I would not know)

2. If the locks are original the coin box will have different key than table

3.  I think if bearings are not cleaned periodically you can end up causing grooves on surface that rods contact. Unlikely they would break. Hard to imagine in home setting they would wear out from use if using proper lube.

4. I think if you search threads on this site there is one describing Merkel rods.

5. If you slowly turn rod it should be obvious looking at end opposite handle if rod is true. Although if it is not obvious I would not worry about it myself.

6. no idea       * are the balls you have tornado?

P.S.   Don't discount tournament play!  if there are events in your area you should check it out at least once 

[papafoos]

1 Don't use a petroleum based silicone and especially don't use WD-40.  Use a food grade silicone or foos lube.  Apply only a drop or two of the foos lube and only a light spray of the silicone.

3 You can clean the bearings with soap and water.  DO NOT overtighten the bearings.  They only need to be snug.  Overtightening can stretch the grooves and cause the bearings to break or may tighten up on the rods to the point where silicone won't help them slide smoothly.

5 Pull the handle end out until the bumper touches the wall.  Rotate the rods and see how much they are bent.  Don't worry about a slight variation.  It's almost inevitable for the 2 rod and 3 rod to get slightly bent in normal play.  A bent 5 row is abuse and a bent goalie rod is a sign of rough play or abuse.

6 A warrior ball will make it easier for a beginner to handle the ball.  I prefer the Tornado ball and even it is to gummy from my perspective.  Today's players seem to like the balls that way.

And as Bolt says, check out your local scene.  You'll meet a lot of players who are willing to help your game and will welcome you into the foos family.  If by chance you run into one who seems like a jerk, let us know where and who so we can shame them.  The best players are good about helping you.

[johnwallan]

1  Is this the best lube for keeping the rods slick?

super lube is teflon based synthetic lubricant...this said it may have a small amount of organic solvent-oil that can soften and degrade plastic... I suspect the one from this site is fine; it comes standard on shelti tables.  I have used it and it is silky smooth; likely better than silicone.  What I have read is that mixing silicon and teflon lubricants makes a goey mess like gravy.   

At home superlube teflon is not a problem if you clean the bearings before first use and stick with it...  the thing is you might want a tube of silicone if you go out the the bar to play.   See, if a table is public, most vendor operators and visitors will use silicone. (second choice is beer, or wd40, or spit, or vegetable oil)... I switched back to silicone just to simplify things for me and everyone else.

2.  Also I saw that there was another lock inside the unit which I presume is for the money box.  Will the key which opens up the cabinet also open the money box?  I was told that often times one key can open up most if not all tornado coin op tables?

my brown marble uses two keys... you can order them from this site and they are numbered.  I think they are too standard and common, which means copy one from a buddy or table operator.  Personally, I removed my ready ramp and replaced a very simple $10 wood guard to allow easy access to the ball return rail and to prevent balls from falling into the table.  It was so simple to build, $10 and 20min at the hardware store.

3.  Do the 2 piece plastic bearings wear out or do they just get replaced when they break?
yes they wear out over time slowly, but rotate them 180 deg and one position clockwise on occasion to have them wear evenly.  They are cheap so order a new set and you will be good for a couple years (at least)

4.  How do i know if i have the Merkel Rods
there is a specific punch mark and rod end... do your research, you might be lucky, but probably not.  If your just starting up, it makes little difference.  Most eveyone is on to the new rod style now anyway.

5.  What is the best method of determining if I have a bent rod besides spinning and seeing if any wobbling is present?
if you cant tell, you cant tell.  For me I spin the rods quickly at all extensions and watch the handle... note that a new handle may have a small wobble even on new rods due to manufacturing tolerances and pin punch travel direction. Usually it is the two man rod that gets the gorrilla action.

6.  Is using the Warrior ball on the Tornado Grey Marble table likely to improve our gaming experience?
the warrior ball is quite different, it feels slow yet gives a very elegant silky controlled feel.  Aesthetically, its bright yellow tends to soil quickly.  Acoustically, it is not as hard hitting action.   I prefer the fireball orange due to speed and more erratic behavior but I practice and play mainly 5hr tornado balls.  Tornado 5hr is likely the best all around for a few reasons, most importanty standardization of feel, timing, and control, between venues you visit and your practice time.  The tornado playfields vary a little bit in terms of traction so keeping the ball standard will help you adjust more quickly on different models.  I recommend buying jims  mixed ball kit from this site (with the performance balls) and using them on special drinking occasions only.  It can be a great deal of fun to change your table speed and feel.

-  Oh man... You absolutely must go to a tournament, or at least join your local dyp... it will open your eyes to the modern style(s) game.  At home people putter the ball around quite a bit and it flows somewhat leasurely with lots of turn arounds... Regular tournament players play what is called the texas style of foosball, based on the fast hard tornado table.  It involves sniper type defence kick shots, highly effective 5bar passing, lightning strike set shots,  all with massive power and control of the ball.  Mix in bit of the euro pin shooting and control, 70s style bank shots, wrist rocket snakes, and quasi random goal tending.... your head will be spinning with... OMG foosball is awesome!!!!

[redbaronace]

Thanks for the helpful answers and welcoming to this forum.

I have loved the game and played much in my earlier years.  Never very good, but just good enough to beat most of my friends who were also not very skilled.  Most of my games were on the coin ops found in establishments. 

Fast forward to today, I have a 6 year old son and 4 year old daughter and wanted something which would hold up to years of play.  Looked on and off for over a year till our current table showed up.  Has around 3600 plays and in overall very good condition.

I looked at our locks and found that the key cylinder was infact ending in 94.  the table came without keys though and was in the locked position with lid open.  Therefore, I could get inside, but could not close the lid fully(due to lock cylinder protruding inward).  I had to hammer them out from the inside to get the lid closed and I believe they are now broken.  I will now be changing the lock cylinders, no big deal.  At least now I am able to lower the lid and begin the process of leveling table. 

A question I had regarding the coin box is how can I read the number on the coin box cylinder.  It is down low and at a 90 degree angle from where I cannot view it directly face on hence, I cannot make out what the number is.  My machine came with some quarters inside, so I am excited to see what this treasure box holds.  All the balls are now tumbling in the washer as I type this.   

Any suggestions on how I can read the coin box number so that I might order another replacement key?  Otherwise, can I get to the coins any other way?  Im in Seattle in case anyone local has a key.

I also read tornados websight regarding leveling the table.  It seems like they are saying one person can do it.  I find it really difficult to lift it for much more than a few seconds.  Any recommendations on how one person can handle this without getting a hernia in the process.

Thanks,

[johnwallan]

Ha!!!  I almost bought that table... the goal posts scared me off... that and the effort reqd to view it, how to fix it, and the drive back to Vancouver if it was crap.... I will be totally pissed if you find treasure inside!  Let me know so I can kick myself.

You could:

Go to a Seattle dyp event and ask around.. I hear pioneer square is a good place for beginner or intermediate play.    http://www.nwfoosball.com/nwfoosball/Foos12X10.aspx

Although on Fireball tables the Washington State Open is friendly and a blast... It is likely happening in May in Bothell... you still have time to practice!!!  I will buy you a beer if you can find me! (hint: the guy at the bar after his 2nd game). 
 

take a $3-$6 chance on a 95 key: -
http://shop.foosball.com/tornadokey.html

( I would also consider buying a set of 8 TTR tourney wraps, silicon lube, 10 -5hr Tballs, 1ea spare figures, spare bearing half, one spare nut, spare pin punch, spare nut wrench tool, and 10 roll pins.  Locally get some formula 409, blue shop towels, and a rubber mallet to change the figures)

Oh yeah... to level the tornado I lift the table and place on a piece of wood at one end only.  The wood is cut to the right height to raise the feet only a few inches.  On a newer table to me, I screw the feet in most of the way CW. repeat on the other end.  Set the table down, and check with a level at various places on the table playfield.  mainly at center and center forward positions.  Raise again, adjust accordingly CCW, lower again, check with level again, and keep repeating until perfect.  If the table is stationary, its a one time process.  I really like the pen size levels found at the hardware store.  Also, newer black feet tornado have a wrench pattern on the feet... you may not have to lift it if you can wrench level.  Ensure you are on a hard surface you do not care about.

[redbaronace]

Ha!!!  I almost bought that table... the goal posts scared me off... that and the effort reqd to view it, how to fix it, and the drive back to Vancouver if it was crap.... I will be totally pissed if you find treasure inside!  Let me know so I can kick myself.

You could:

Go to a Seattle dyp event and ask around.. I hear pioneer square is a good place for beginner or intermediate play.    http://www.nwfoosball.com/nwfoosball/Foos12X10.aspx

Although on Fireball tables the Washington State Open is friendly and a blast... It is likely happening in May in Bothell... you still have time to practice!!!  I will buy you a beer if you can find me! (hint: the guy at the bar after his 2nd game). 
 

take a $3-$6 chance on a 95 key: -
http://shop.foosball.com/tornadokey.html

( I would also consider buying a set of 8 TTR tourney wraps, silicon lube, 10 -5hr Tballs, 1ea spare figures, spare bearing half, one spare nut, spare pin punch, spare nut wrench tool, and 10 roll pins.  Locally get some formula 409, blue shop towels, and a rubber mallet to change the figures)

Oh yeah... to level the tornado I lift the table and place on a piece of wood at one end only.  The wood is cut to the right height to raise the feet only a few inches.  On a newer table to me, I screw the feet in most of the way CW. repeat on the other end.  Set the table down, and check with a level at various places on the table playfield.  mainly at center and center forward positions.  Raise again, adjust accordingly CCW, lower again, check with level again, and keep repeating until perfect.  If the table is stationary, its a one time process.  I really like the pen size levels found at the hardware store.  Also, newer black feet tornado have a wrench pattern on the feet... you may not have to lift it if you can wrench level.  Ensure you are on a hard surface you do not care about.

Glad I got this table. 
Yes, the seller was not the easiest to deal with.  He ended up being a nice guy, but had bad information regarding how much this table should sell for and hence kept changing his mind on price (each time going up).  I had been hounding him since before Thanksgiving to sell me the table.  After much frustration, I decided to purchase the warrior table for $530 shipped from overstock.com. 

With this decision made, I made one final attempt to purchase the coinop tornado from the seller.  Surprisingly, he called me back and I arranged to see the table.  It was in good shape beside the mentioned items.  The goals are chipped, but only very slightly so and I can live with it.  I will put the hardener on the wood to keep it from getting worse. 

I did manage to find the key number for the coin box by taking a photo with my phone.  It was hard to read, but at least I can now order a key and find out how much $$$ is inside.  Based on the sound, it might close to covering my key, cylinders, men, punch, synthetic oil, wrench and pins.  He also provided an extra bag of balls.  While it took an entire day to get this done, its now in my living room getting ready for a tuneup and for friends to enjoy during this weekends Seahawks playoff game.

My thoughts of participating in tournaments quickly changed when I saw some videos of professional foosballers.  Reality then quickly set in.  Perhaps my son will dominate someday.

[alaskan thunder]

My thoughts of participating in tournaments quickly changed when I saw some videos of professional foosballers.  Reality then quickly set in.  Perhaps my son will dominate someday.

Don't let videos of the pros scare you away. Few tournament players are anywhere near that good...