right !!! Tony has a fantastic 5-bar. Almost allbut unstoppable, very fast and accurate. Pappas has fluidity that I have never seen before & his control is something to see. One of my most uhh memorable matches I have had was against both of them and let me tell you that it was the first time in my life I had to laugh at the fact that I was going to lose. Everything they did worked!!! Tonys 5 row was so damn fast I couldn't do a thing about it. They are both really fun to watch thats for sure!!!