Topic: shot triggers

[Old Meister]

So you set up your shot in a tournament, you wait x amount of time until you deliver a devastating shot. You waited for what to trigger your shot. A visual trigger/something said "shoot it!" or a timed trigger(counted off 4 1/2 seconds and went long) or watched and watched until you thought you saw something? It's a good question in that the trigger is either conscious or unconscious. I ask this because I have been in other sports requiring repetitive movements and triggers. I was 6th in the world in archery and I used a triggering device called a clicker. You aimed while you pulled the arrow further and further back. The clicker was a spring loaded wire that went over your arrow and as you aimed you pulled it past the clicker wire so that it clicked against the bow. At this point you shot the arrow with a practiced release comprised of muscle memory due to alot of practice. I also got into pool pretty heavy and found that the more I worked at it the worse I got, the reason was I thought too much about what I was doing. I bought an excellent book that dealt with the  mental aspects of pool. What was suggested in this book was to use a cadence to order my shot so that it went off without conscious controls. The method was to count off a 1234 1234 1234 beat and to structure my form and set up with in this cadence and the shot happened at the same count. It worked! So here I am now once again approaching my best loved sport but with a whole new outlook. Effective shots and sequences are the rule. So we set up our favorite shot, probably have to beat the goalie on the long so that he frets over the tweeners. It's set up and we go relaxed as we wait. What triggers the shot? I really look forward to the answers you guys give.

[B,inSA]

ive never tried a cadence, but will. i usually go after i look and pick a hole. however long it takes me to decide.i try and pick my holes semi-randomly, but i can get predictable. i think thats why i like playin goalie so much. i see the lane, and put it through.

[Chase Pennell]

What division did you shoot in? (i used to shoot competetively too) I was a Cadet at the time...unlimited class....in Pa.....i know what you are talking about with the release....but i never used that theory in foosball.....

Chase

[Old Meister]

I shot Freestyle limited, the same as the Olympic shooters except with compound bows. The whole point of mentioning it was that every part of the shot had to "feel" right in order for it to be accurate. To consciously change or cause any part of the shot made for a miss including the trigger. If my sight went onto the exact center and I said "shoot" in my mind, it would be a big miss. But instead I had this device that allowed me to aim and aim and it clicked so that the shot went off automatically. I always like to understand why things worked as they did and did alot of thinking about archery and the use of conscious and subconcious roles. Then I tried to get into pool heavily and, like my earlier post said, I just got worse and worse the more serious I got only to come up agaist it again. I was thinking about and trying to consciously control every part of the shot and I failed miserably.The subconscious is so much better at allowing smooth effortless performance when it comes to tasks that use muscle memory of fine motor skills. That is why the term"brain dead" is used to describe someone who seems hardly involved yet performs flawlessly, they have turned over to the subconscious what should be turned over and use the conscious as the coach from the sidelines. You practice over and over to develop that muscle memory for the shape of shot you want so it is an automatic and then get into a tournament situation where you feel you can't make a mistake and suddenly can't find that shot. That is due to your conscious trying to take over that which your subconscious knows how to do and so you choke. That is all choking is, not lack of skill. You know how to do the shot as good as anyone there and you know it and when you get home you prove that point by drilling a dozen of them in quick order. You're ready to quit because if you can't bring it when you want to then why put in all the effort. As I set up my long push and relaxed my arm so that it was still and waiting to do this task of an explosive movement I realized I was once again dealing with the need for a trigger. There isn't a clicker in foos but maybe cadence could work. To try to say"now!" would be trying to replay the failures I've come to learn about in my other sports. So as I sit there with that shot placed so that I know it is in the right place to do a shot I know I can do the best way to make it unrestriced is to find a trigger, cadence, a visual trigger such as the opponents repetition of a certain move in defense, what do you guys use?

[bbtuna]

well, I understand the concepts you are talking about and I can clearly see how that works in Archery and even pool but foosball is much different...both those sports, and I suppose darts would fall into the same category of sports where you are working with a stationary target and you can do the stroke at the same time and even with "tells" and the only thing that matters is clearing your mind for that moment in time

Foosball is much more like Tennis, Table Tennis, Raquet Ball, and Baseball...you have a moving target and an opponent who will battle you physically and strategically for timing and position...in foosball, your stroke window has to be much larger and have numerous triggers...

foosball is more about being able to be in a state of mind where you don't clutter your bodies' capabilities while at the same time being able to strategize (seting up shots/passes/defenses etc) and purposesly changing timing so to be unpredictable all the while battling another person or person who wants strategic supremacy

what things to look for when you are on the offense on 3 bar or what strategy you should use is another question

[bbtuna]

this won't answer your stroke part of your question but it will answer the what/when do you shoot question...this is long, and is only about half of what I have, but take a few min to read through, Eric Dunn has written some good stuff on this subject...

Reading Defenses and Strategy (The Play Book)
This following section by Eric Dunn, from 2 different posts but covering the same approach, is about reading defense and offensive approach with a rollover.  However, what he covers is sound for any pinned shot (Euro Pin and Back Pin) and there are many principles that can be used with any shot.  This is not a simplistic approach but it is sound, accurate, and articulately communicated.

Note:  This material could be studied and used sort of in reverse when developing your defenses.  

how to read the D when shooting a rollover  (Foosball Board)
http://foosballboard.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6155&sid=d1d9b576d5aa4f210abe47f62c865234
Eric Dunn 10/18/07

I think its more important to learn different ways to read a defense over learning 'how' to read a defense.  Yes i shoot a rollover. and yippeee I’m a pm.. I shoot it from a stand still, a stutter rock, and a full rock.  Within each of these motions or stand still sets, I find it helps to be able to read differently.  In its simplest terms, you can either shoot at a man (hoping it moves out of the way), or at a hole (hoping it remains open). There are many other ways as well, but these are the ones to start with.

AND you can either shoot man or hole the moment you see it open, or you can pre-read it.

Even if you learn a good way to read a defense, the better goalies are eventually going to figure you out, show you what you want to see, or show you something that makes you uncomfortable, and then you start to get blocked.

This is why it’s important to change how you are reading the defense often. I change how I am reading the defense mostly after 1 block.

I don’t let the defense dictate how I am reading the defense either. I think that's a mistake. I decide how I am shooting the ball before I even gain possession (yes it’s scripted - see other posts from me on that). Defenses are too good at showing you something, then changing it up at the exact right time - and it’s not a mistake - it’s planned.

If you get in the habit of
1. get ball
2. setup
3. read defense
4. decide how you want to shoot
5. wait for it
6. shoot

better defenses will figure out when you do #3, and be able to bait you for what they want you to shoot. I say screw that. I've already decided, I’m reading how I want, for the movement I want, and it’s probably different than what I did last time (if I got blocked). So I can shoot when I want. Sometimes quick shoot, sometimes wait - like others have said.

Shooting blind - with a slight adjustment isn’t bad either. The adjustment I would make is to not look at the defense for a number of seconds (I actually close my eyes - and count to some number), and then I open my eyes, and am effectively quick shooting (with a very quick read) on my own terms.

It might sound like a lot of thinking, and too many combinations to think of at once, that why I think it helps to script it. You can have a game plan that goes something like this:
I'm going to start off the game by shooting off a full rock - shooting at a man.
then if I get blocked, I’m going to switch to a full rock - shooting at a hole (this would be a natural progression, from man shooting, cause they are likely leaving holes open if you got blocked shooting at a man)
If you get blocked, to mix things up then you can do a quick shot -- by now you should have had a few attempts to read the defense when you were setting up the previous possessions, and have a good idea of what to shoot on the quick shot (i.e. what did the defense do when you started into your rock).
Then repeat. And keep shooting the same way until you get blocked (or you feel you got blocked, as apposed to missed or lucky block etc).

So to break it all down. Shoot man, shoot hole, quick shoot, repeat. Is one way you can mix things up enough to keep goalies guessing.

What hasn’t been talked about a lot is how one reads are given way.
If I've decided to shoot at a man this time, this is what I do anyways.
While I'm rocking, I'm simply watching the defense, for anything that seems repetitive.  For me I just watch, and something comes to me - some others pick a man, and only watch that man, and again they are looking for something that appears to keep re-occurring... like maybe when the goalie man goes to the push side, he pauses, baits once (small twitch), then comes off.
Wait for the goalie to do that again, and wait for the bait, and shoot at that goalie. This is the thought process for a pre-read.

The thought process for a moment you see it shooting (still shooting man) might go something like this.
Read the defense to get a sense of which hole (push, pull, middle) is open more often than not. ok got it. looks like he's coming off push more (baiting lots on pull and strait).. ok next time he plants a man or waves a man across push, I’m shooting push.. wait wait wait.. ok bam.

This is single man reading.. there is also the concept of what i call image reading, where you take into account the position of both rods, and wait for the rods to appear back in that position, and shoot accordingly.. you can either shoot at the image (shooting hole), or you can shoot after the image (shooting man).