Topic: Scoring with 5 man

[B5280high]

I've been in a 2 yr argument with a buddy where my position is that you cannot score with the 5 man (5 man rod).  Two questions:

1- You CAN score legally with the 5 man
2- Was it ever against the rules/not allowed to score with the 5 man

Maybe I was just dazed and confused......

[bbtuna]

sorry to say, but you CAN score from the 5 man...it has been this way for over 30 years as far as I know....this is however a very persistent theme among people who play for fun and really don't know the rules and probably haven't ever seen or read official rules

there are other bar rules I hear regularly like scores that aren't clean don't count or balls that go in and pop out don't count or balls can be passed on the 5 man from a stationary position or you can NOT stop the ball and shoot

you can see the current rule set at the link below...I am certain that if you are struggling with this one that there are many others you aren't aware of

like any sport, if the ball goes in, it counts...if it breaks the plain of the goal and comes back out to the playing surface the goal counts

probably want to read 5 man rules, ball off the table, dead ball, and serving the ball and the Ready Protocol (also what to do after a time out-connected with serving the ball)

http://www.table-soccer.org/rules/

[redterror]

as far as i know you can score from anywhere, period.   even if its an accident.

[bbtuna]

yes, that is true...there are few exceptions which are not considered "illegally" scored but the 5 man is not one of these...these exceptions are not all gathered under one rule, they are scattered about but one is Spinning the Rods which has its own Entry

12. Point Scored
A ball entering the goal shall count as a point, as long as it was legally scored. A ball which enters the goal but returns to the playing surface and/or leaves the table still counts as a goal.

15. Spinning the Rods
Spinning of the rods is illegal. Spinning is defined as the rotation of any soccer figure more than 360 degrees before or more than 360° after striking the ball. In calculating the 360° you do not add the degrees spun prior to striking the ball to the degrees spun after striking the ball.

15.1 If a ball is advanced by an illegal spin the opposing team will have the option of continuing play from the current position or to serve the ball.

15.2 Spinning of a rod which does not advance and/or strike the ball does not constitute an illegal spin. If a player's spinning rod hits the ball backwards into his own goal, it will count as a goal for the opposing team. Spinning of a rod away from the ball (when there is no possession) is not considered an illegal spin, but may be ruled as a distraction.

15.3 If an ungrasped rod is spun by the force of a ball hitting a player figure on the rod, the spin will be considered legal (example: a two-man shot in singles hitting the three-man).

[bbtuna]

oh, and scoring from the 5 bar is great fun...if you don't like it, stop them and better yet, join them

just learn when and how to use it and learn how to stop people who indiscriminately hack at the ball as hard as they can with the 5 hoping for the luck of the role...you will find people like this (you probably play at least one  ) and you can do several things

1.  stay in front of the ball and don't let them move you out of the way with their big wild swing moves
2.  learn to control the ball so your hacking opponent gets as few possesions as possible
3.  learn your own wild hack and see how they like it
4.  learn a controlled smart 5 man shot
5.  learn to pass a high percentage from the 5 to your 3, this will give you the best chance of winning because as good as a 5 bar shot can be, there is no higher percentage than your 3 bar (all things considered)

have fun and report back how it goes

[bbtuna]

20. Distraction
Any movement or sound made away from or behind the rod where the ball is in play may be judged as a distraction. No point made as a result of a distraction will count. If a player believes he is being distracted, it is his responsibility to call for an official.

20.1 Banging the five-man rod or any rod prior to, during, or after a shot is considered a distraction. Moving the five-rod slightly after the shot has started is not considered a distraction.

20.2 Talking between teammates while the ball is in play may be judged a distraction.

20.3 It is not considered a distraction, when passing, to move the catching rod as part of a fake. Excessive motion, however, is grounds for a distraction.

20.4 It is considered a distraction, after setting up a shot, to remove a hand from the handle and then immediately shoot the ball. The ball may only be shot after both hands (and/or wrist) have been on both handles for one full second.

20.4.1 In singles, rule 20.4 only applies to a set shot on the three-rod.

20.5 A player who removes his hands from the handles and reaches down or away from the table (to wipe his hands, apply rosin, etc) while the ball is in play shall be charged with a distraction.

20.6 Penalty for distraction. For the first distraction violation, the guilty team may be charged with a warning if the official present judges the distraction to be harmless. If a shot is scored as a result of a distraction by the offensive team, the point will not count (this would be considered an "illegal" shot - one of the exceptions I mentioned) and the opposing team will serve the ball. In all other cases, the opposing team has the option of continuing play from the current position; continue play from the point of infraction, or serve the ball. Subsequent violations may be grounds for a technical foul.

[foozkillah]

Here's another 5bar question:
- Team A legally serves the ball from their 5bar area.
- Team B gains possession and reserves the ball because:
-- a foul was called on team A, resulting in loss of possession
or Team B gets possession of a dead ball off the table or behind the 5.

- Now, Team B legally serves the ball from their 5bar area or goal area.
If the ball subsequently goes dead between the 5bars, who gets the serve?  The original serving team (A) who lost possession by foul or by Colorado clear rule or control of a ball off the table, or is it team (B) who last served the ball from their 5bar or their goal area?

If it's like the old way, then Team B, who definitely did not foul, will lose possession and get penalized for a dead ball that is a neutral situation.  So, is it the last team that served from the most recent dead ball (righteous), or the team that served, then fouled or Colo-cleared from the beginning of the point? (leftyouis)