Topic: Pull Snake harder to learn than push snake???

[redterror]

Is it just me or is the pull Snake harder to learn than push snake???  I think I am close to mastering the push snake but my pull snake is out in left field.  I mean I can do it half the time in slo-mo but in real time I am getting all sorts of un-intended angle shots.

[PatRyan]

It sounds like your toss is not the same for the push side and the pull side.  You are drawing the ball back too far on your pull side and that is what is creating all of the wierd angles. 

You should practice the toss (moving the ball laterally before the roll-over part of the shot).  The proper toss should have the ball move sideways (towards the sidewall) and back just slightly (towards the three man rod), to provide better, more consistent contact with the face of the foot.  Work on practicing the toss to both sides so that the path it follows on your pull side is a mirror image of the path it follows on your push side. 


In almost all cases, a person's roll-over will be stronger and faster to one side, and less so on the other side.  The idea is to make your weaker side formidable enough to hit the hole once you work the goalie's men over to your strong side. 

[Rob Scanlon]

to add to what Pat said.

more often than not when i see someone shooting as you described it's because there stance is either to close to the table or to far forward (closer to the opponent goal) to find a good stance i would take 3 balls place 1 in the center in the front pin the other 2 i would put in front of the long pull and long push also in front pin position. now get in your stance and tap each of the 3 balls if you find yourself moving more than your shoulder ( and a much lesser extent your elbow) adjust your stance.

i find most people having trouble with a pull side have there hip in the path of there elbow and have to rotate there hips to get there elbow to the pull side or are standing so close to the table that when there rotating the rod to strike the ball the hadle is BEHIND THEM!  not a good way to shoot, IMHO

[gitablok]

One last practice tip.

Practice the finish of the shot and this will teach you the entire stroke.

Set the ball out on the second dot from the big dot either side. Now as if you had the ball ready to shoot, rock back and forth to simulate the rock. Now take off as if you were doing the toss. Remember, you still don't have the ball. Now, after the simulated toss, actually strike the ball.

This teaches you the entire shot including the follow through. After religious practice, add the ball at the beginning on the big dot and you won't believe how much this drill will have helped you.

 If any clarification is needed let me know.


ICEMAN.

[gitablok]

One more thing, the split instant you take off in your toss to do the shot, release all pressure.

This will give you a smooth and consistent toss.


ICEMAN.

[redterror]

thanks everyone for the advice.  yes I have/had issues with syncing the toss and hitting the ball from the pull snake and my stance was (really) odd for the pull snake.  now after a couple weeks practice, I think I am close to nailing it.  I've had my son try to block while I practice, it really helps to have someone try to block you.

and I do see the NEED to learn both sides because it makes you a lot less predictable.  Soon I will be ready to play at the bars/pool halls....

[chance37]

i thought the pull was easier to learn...i guess its whatever side you feel comfortable with at first is the side u learn and work which in turn makes the opposite harder to do........I learned the push not too soon afterwards and now im killing the middles and short straight both ways....getting pretty damn good t it, just gotta get my brush cleaned up....wont be long.....just kill whatever youre weak at u will learn..just takes tens of thousands of reps...

[Old Meister]

Isn't it funny how the guys who think the most have the most trouble,BUT, those are the guys who finally arrive at a point where their game is above the average. Listen to everything, try what makes sense, use what works and know who you are,,,

[Fastert]

Hi there!

Do all these tips & tricks also apply for the europin, because they sound very good.

Greetings Fastert

[bbtuna]

maybe, I have never seen anyone talk about them together like that with a subject like this because the stroke needed for each is different

less pressure on a rod is always a good principle regardless of the shot but the talk about toss doesn't aply at all

[PatRyan]

As bbtuna said, many of them do apply, but the "toss" is a bit different.  AND the pull side is much easier to learn than the push side.  As far as some of the tips and tricks, they would all need to be modified a bit for application to the europin.  The toss on the europin is different because you continue the downward motion of the player figures foot, ahead of the ball, then the ball continues to move to a position in front of the foot during the backswing and the striking motion.  So, the ball should travel the same path, but the motion of the man, the pressure on the ball and the timing is a bit different.  However, Iceman's practice tip for practicing the motion of the man during a rollover can be adjusted slightly and used for the Europin. 

Put a ball in the front pin position, in the center of the goal mouth. Place another ball out near the long hole (about 2.5 inches to the right of the first ball) and a little bit back closer to the 3-man rod.  then practice coming off of the center ball (without moving the center ball) and backswing in the space between the balls, then finish the forward stroke of the shot striking the ball you placed on front of the long hole.  The idea is to train your arm to execute the backswing and strike perfectly every time.  And when you lift off of the center ball from the pin, lift off just slightly, do not swing up much at all, try to move the man straight toward you then start the backswing as near to the center ball as you can, without having the center ball move.  If this drill gets too easy, move the ball that is sitting in front of the long hole closer to the center ball and repeat the practicing proccess.  The closer the two balls are, the more difficult the drill.  This should be done with a bit of speed, just like you were executing your shot for real. 

[askirojaro]

From my experience the push and pull snake are very similar in difficulty.  Which ever one you practice more will likely be stronger - but it shouldn't be significantly so.  I learned both sides at the same time favoring the pull side slightly because its easier to see the ball.

Understanding that like 80% of the shot is the lateral pull will help a lot. Try to visualize both the motion and the "feel" of the lateral toss mostly before you shoot the shot.  Because the lateral motion is such a small distance on the lateral pull/push the mechanics of either shot shouldn't be much harder.  Whats hard is the visualization of the shot before you shoot it and connecting all the pieces of the shot in your mind and getting the timing/pressure just right.

If you think you have a weaker side, just practice the weaker shot exclusively until you feel confident that you can do either side on a whim and that they will both be powerful and well executed. 

Also unintended angle shots indicate your not rolling the ball out far enough, shooting too fast (before you placed the ball where you want it), or skipping the "pause" between the lateral toss and the spin.  If I were you I'd focus on the "pause" (as others have indicated) and try the cutback to square off your shot.