Topic: 5 bar defense

[bubbyman]

would like some tips on 5 bar defense? tilt guys forward? tilt them back? lot of movement? any advise greatly appreciated.

[foozkillah]

I would recommend mastering the most basic 50-50 D, until you get familiar enough to customize your 5bar D to your opponents.  Always going between either a total shutdown of the wall, OR feathering the opposite "sweet spot" or deadbar lane just inside the next playing figure.  Easy enough to vary the timing of where your defenders are, with double-backs or double-pumps, to prevent getting timed.  Never get trapped in the "scrub" lane, which you can train yourself to jump to, anyway, from either the wall or the sweetspot.  Especially against topside passers... who seem to hit that sweetspot even more consistently, on the reverse "up".

Of course, as you get more and more familiar with the opposing forward's tendencies and fave passes and passing series', you can adjust and fake out to bait even higher percentages.  But against an unknown or unfamiliar forward, you gotta do 50-50, especially in bigger tourneys.  Most of all, pay attention to the opposing forward's passing philosophy, if he/she has one.  No laying off until it's your possession.  That is prolly the hardest discipline to master.  Either that or practice that blank stare & raised eyebrow that Ama's and below always seem to end up with whenever they face a real 5.  That and crying like a baby ...

[Rios]

If you watch most of the top players you will notice that they tend to "spike the lane" or put the toe forward when guarding the lane pass and toe back when going to the wall. Now this is because if you put the toe forward in the lane, it make them hit a much steeper pass.
Of course this only really applies when facing a brush passer...

Be able to recognize what the persons tendencies are. Where do they tend to go wall? Lane? Look and see if they go off the wall and then go back to it. Are they able to do a steep brush down?

Just look for certain options that the player tends to go to. If you watch Pro's and Masters play it turns more into a baiting game on the 5bar. But everyone has tells... it just depends on how well they desguise them.

Watch the inside foos DVD's... they will help

[foozkillah]

Good advice, Tom!

If you can get one or more foos buddies to play with you, bubbyM, a great exercise is 5-man wars, where you score points for each completed pass.  Prevents boredom inherent in practicing your passes by yourself, and allows you to test and experiment with different shakes and defensive series'.  And if you and your friends are "action" guys, then going dollah-dollah makes it even more worthwhile.

Set up the same way as for a regular new point serve, with the same 10-second time restraints.  Completed passes & completed interceptions or "stuffs" to the other 3bar count for a point.  A stolen pass at the 5bar is treated the same way, loss of possession.  Any incomplete passes going into the goal area are treated as loss of possession and the ball is reserved by the opposing 5bar.  Really helps train concentration on the passing game, and helps many noobs to learn not to "jerk" or try to blockpass immediately when they get ahold of the ball.

[bbtuna]

if you score you keep the ball right?

also, consider counting a miss on the 3 bar into opposing goalie area as a point as well...it helps emphasise the importance of the catch and the benefit of a deflection

game is to 5 or 10 but if you are going to count all these things as points, you probably want to play to 10

[bubbyman]

do all the tornaments just give the ball to the 5 bar now? no more dropping it though the hole?

[bbtuna]

all those using ITSF rules which is pretty much everyone

this has been going on for 2 years and even though most thought it was stupid we have become accustomed to it...I think it looks, ah, well, "artistic" if you know what I mean

but, it doesn't bother me at all and it seems totally normal we have been doing it so long

if it was me, I would have made the other 4 euro tables drill holes and learn to drop the friggin ball

well, thats all I said and thats all I will say

[foozkillah]

if you score you keep the ball right?
also, consider counting a miss on the 3 bar into opposing goalie area as a point as well...it helps emphasise the importance of the catch and the benefit of a deflection
game is to 5 or 10 but if you are going to count all these things as points, you probably want to play to 10

Nah, we just keep it standard... you catch a clean or deflected pass on the three, its a point and you give up the serve.  This keeps the scoring simple and trains the player to switch quickly between an offensive and then defensive mindset.  That skill is usually what separates a level, the ability to switch ASAP between trying to pass or block, to the exact opposite.  It quickly leads to the loss of those doubletakes and questioning hands in the air after a flubbed or intercepted pass.  Or other losses of concentration in reacting to a bad slop or unlucky bounce.

Just intense concentration and making 5 successful catches on the 3bar as soon as possible.  Then start over to the next game.  It actually mirrors game play with forwards, who usually aren't anywhere near the ideal "brick" wall in nets, anyway.  The more quick 5point games, the more often the forwards get used to playing to go over the hill, or 4 points.  There is no added "happiness" or smug self-satisfaction when catching deflected balls or mis-hit passes.  Same as in a real game.

[gitablok]

Mario, Moya, and I got into a discussion about this awhile back but I guess because of the hackers it may be lost, bb, did you save it by any chance?

[bbtuna]

let me look tomorrow when I get to work...

[gitablok]

get a chance yet?

[bbtuna]

sorry ICE, I didn't forget you, I just ignored you   just kidding of course...no I lost all my links and I did not pick through that before it went away...I think it is in this link though

http://clubfoos.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=81

[gitablok]

Thanks bb, that's the one.

[foozkillah]

sorry ICE, I didn't forget you, I just ignored you   just kidding of course...no I lost all my links and I did not pick through that before it went away...I think it is in this link though

http://clubfoos.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=81 

Yeah I remember that thread... I like Moya's take on it best...  and committing while always having a philosophy when defending.  My own pet-peeve philosophy is that when I'm jumping to the nets, that the forward, especially one with a weaker 5, better have a philosophy and not just react or chase the pass.  Unless he's the Flash, of course...