Topic: New Bumper Question

[jinhopark]

Before I install my new Tornado bumpers I had a few questions...  I wanted to put all the latest and greatest parts on my old Tornado table, and I understand that the new bearings are thinner.  I was also under the impression that the new bumpers were slightly wider to correct the offset from the wall with the new thinner bearing width.

Here are the pics of the new size bearings next to the old size bearings:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4446677909/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4446678341/

Using a caliper I measured the older wider bearings to be .150" and the new bearings to be .180", which is a difference of .030".

Having this data I would have thought the new bumpers would be wider by .030", but they were the exact same width as the older bumpers.  I measured both to be .94" on my caliper, and I used bumpers from 4 different tables...  I even set a new bumper (which can be differentiated by the darker black color) next to the old bumper and put a level on it and it was pretty much dead level.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4447453730/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4446679173/

Maybe I got some new older inventory bumpers?  Or maybe the new bumpers are supposed to be the same size, so in reality there really weren't any "newer" bumpers?

Is there anyone that can confirm or deny that the new T3000 tables come with the new bumpers that are wider when compared to the old bumpers?  Thanks!

[ComebackKid]

I could be wrong but I think the new bumpers are the same width. They made the new bearing thinner because the ball would go between the man and the wall on a wall pass or a brush down. Charles should be able to better clarify this information. And again, I am not sure, but this was my understanding, I could be wrong about the whole thing.

[bbtuna]

all i know of this is that Tor made a new mold for their bumpers and the bumpers came out slightly wider...this was around the time of the 30th Ann model...lots of complaints over a couple years of the ball going behind the man on a tight wall pass

shortly before all the recent changes, they explored the idea of either retooling the bumper mold thus making the bumper slightly smaller again or retooling the split bearings...they tried out the bearing option at a couple tournaments with hand shaved bearings and this worked well and they decided to go that route

i have never heard of the color difference so i can't say one way or the other on that...i am sure it is possible to order bumpers from some places and get old/smaller bumpers...i can imagine this isn't stock that turns very fast

i have a cherry model (old/smaller bumpers) and i ordered some new to replace a couple that were going bad...the new ones were for sure bigger as i began losing balls behind my guys...i have a couple friends with Grey marbles (one 30th and another later) and both have this issue...well, until we replaced the bearings

soI don't know what to tell you about your situation, its possible you got NOS

[jinhopark]

The 4 tables we measured the bumpers on were from the following tables:

Grey marble 30th coin-op
Cherry coin-op
HM 2000
Grey marble coin-op (not 30th)

All of them had bumpers that were .94" wide.

We noticed 2 really small differences though...

1.  The grey'ish hue found on all the old black bumpers (see photos) Vs. the new bumpers which are clearly black (do the bumpers come black and then develop the grey'ish discoloration when they get older?).

2.  The new bumpers seem to be the same height from the front (hole side) to the back (non-hole) side.  The older bumper mould seemed shorter on the front (hole side) than the back (non-hole) side.  I'll have to take some pics of what I am talking about.

We had a theory...taking into account of the ball being able to sneak around a tight wall pass.  The new bumper mould was made of a slightly stiffer rubber material AND the bumper was the same height front to back, which would also "stiffen" up the bumper a bit.  When trying to stop a tight wall pass the more flexible bumper material would "give" a little and would be able to squeeze tighter against the wall thus stopping the pass...where as the newer harder bumper material would not flex and keep it's shape, thus allowing a ball to sneak by.

The thinner profile bearings would obviously take care of the issue whether you used the old or new bumper mould.  Granted my sample size is small, but if someone could measure and verify the height of the rubber bumpers on a new T3000 that would be useful.

I whole heartedly agree that, for whatever reason, the new thinner bearing do spin and play nicer...  I would not think that removing .030" extra material would make a noticeable difference, but it did.  Really weird.

[alaskan thunder]

We use old bumpers on our new icebox tables. Hard wall passes don't squirt through so I wouldn't be too concerned.

[bbtuna]

jin, thats a good guess

yea, weird about them playing smoother and faster and there is no doubt...my guess on why that happened...only thing i can figure is that the part of the rod that actually contacts the rod is the bottom half...i guess since there is less "bearing" touching the rod it is smoother

i have a few extra bearings and i plan on shaving the bottom half thinner...just the bearing ring and probably from the back side and see if that makes them smoother yet

what do you think?

[jinhopark]

jin, thats a good guess

yea, weird about them playing smoother and faster and there is no doubt...my guess on why that happened...only thing i can figure is that the part of the rod that actually contacts the rod is the bottom half...i guess since there is less "bearing" touching the rod it is smoother

i have a few extra bearings and i plan on shaving the bottom half thinner...just the bearing ring and probably from the back side and see if that makes them smoother yet

what do you think?

Tuna:

I honestly didn't think the thinner bearings would make any bit of difference...but on the 3 tables where I have seen them replaced from the older thicker bearings to the newer thinner ones, each time there was a noticeable difference.  The other odd thing I've heard, is that once the bearings get "worn" they will play even smoother...so you would think the 6-15 year old bearings would be plenty worn and smooth, but they were not any smoother than the new thinner bearings.  So I guess the new thinner bearings will only get even smoother with time then???  I also thought there was less surface area, thus less friction...which would translate into smoother bearings, but a difference of .030" have a noticeable difference?  That is the only difference that I can see.  I would love to read your findings on the shaved bottom half bearing....  If it holds true, then I would imagine anyone could just shave down their bearings slightly and get the same effects as the newer bearing design.

In regards to the bumper...  I took some more photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4459105330/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4459107180/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44474583@N07/4459106268/

Looking at the pictures above I think my theory holds true...the old bumper thickness is different from front to back. It is thinner on the hole side and wider on the non-hole side...where as the new bumper is pretty much the same width front to back.

I would guess that the issue with the new bumper design is not that it is wider, but it is more difficult to compress up against the wall...thus being able to squeeze a tight wall pass through there.  What do you think?