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can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?

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Offline the spray

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can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« on: January 30, 2009, 02:02:40 AM »
YES I SHOOT A PULL AND YES JUST STARTED UP AGAIN, but I now have a new respect for the snake!? 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 12:29:15 AM by the spray »

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 05:18:49 AM »
snake shot kills the game :>

Offline foozkillah

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Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 04:12:27 PM »
snake shot kills the game :> 

How would it kill the game?  I've heard this statement for years, because suddenly so many younger and newer foosball enthusiasts find a quicker way to get a decent (NOTE* NOT AN UNSTOPPABLE SECRET WEAPON) shot for the 3bar that's loud enough to impress the PSx and vidgames kids and takes tremendous advantage of physics to generate speed and power with the rods and figures.   Purists have said so many similar things about pull shots that dominated as they came into heavy use...  until the defenses caught up. 

Most people who've been demoralized by the prevalence of rollovers JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN COMFORTABLE YET with the timing and the philosophy of defending the shot.  Just give it a bit of time and I'd recommend asking around or observing those who block the rollover as well as the other shots.  Just another challenge to make playing even more fun, raithza.  Find one or more defensive strategies to minimize or control the rollover shooter's scoring, and you might still lose, but then it's become a game again.  Not just a horserace.

Those rollover shooters might get up to rookie speed quite a bit quicker, and won't EVER have to deal with the tendonitis and wrist and finger sprains like the old school used to, but I'd say let the kids have their safer fun (THROUGH SCIENCE: rotational vectors and other crap & such).  I wouldn't think to begrudge them.  But they'd have to still devote as much time and patience to mastering a killshot rollover at the semipro or higher level.  And as everyone knows, in advanced or pro organized sports and games, it's still ALL IN and ALL ABOUT the 5bar passing and defense.  Just as it always has been with the midfielders in FIFA soccer, the offensive quarterback/defensive linebacker in American football, or the point guard in basketball, and the game is STILL MOST OFTEN DECIDED IN THE TRENCHES.

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 04:38:32 AM »
I just find that on any table which allows a powerful snake, it is the only shot being played.  A mediocre snake is as strong as an above-average pull or kick sequence.  I can't remember who said it, but there is no telegraphing of your shot.

I'm not saying the snake is undefendable, or that it takes no skill to execute, just that it is so powerful that other styles of shooting struggle to compete with it, which forces everyone to have to do a snake.

But I suppose i just enjoy the scrub level of play where every striker has a unique lineup of shots, and you have to try and open up the defence before shooting because quality of table/player does not allow 100% accurate unraceable shots all the time.  It's just a different style of play than the pro 'set shot' game.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 11:59:11 PM »
I would recommend learning at least a mediocre snake and making sure your pull or kick at least stay above average.  Why stay with one shot?  The more weapons, the better you'll do.  You'll also prolly notice that as your pull or kick shot gets better, it scores even more frequently as the snakers/rollers dominate, just due to the fact that as more and more of them start appearing, there are less and less of the other shots to learn to defend against.

As David Gummeson & T-Mac (06 & 08 Tornado Worlds, 09 Nantes World Cup, ad infinitum), have demonstrated as they cut swaths through the pros and promasters with their pullshots, it really works both ways.  If you like pullshots, or whatever, you can always use a half-decent rollover as a "scrubduster" to get through the riffraff and beginners, then just decide when to use your oldschool shot to attack all these rollover whippersnappers.

It should work wonderfully for you, both ways, and if you've had the time and training to get a good shot besides the rollover, then you should take the same hint that all newbies and foosretards have learned, learning and adding a passable snake is easy to incorporate into your game, without the injuries and strains the other shots have always imposed.  That's an easy answer, c'mon!!  I know from playing with him, that promaster and former world champ Tom Yore from Tampa has a damn good snake, which he only uses in pickups, BUT STAYS WITH HIS WORLDCLASS PULLSHOT in competition.

And please don't be like the herd of purist, bigoted, just plain stupid oldschool players who refused to learn the shot, even if they never used it in pickups or competition, because learning the shot, even by yourself, ALSO TEACHES YOU HOW TO DEFEND IT, AT LEAST THE BASICS LIKE STANDARD POST D.  A lot of disillusioned elitist morons disdained even learning the shot by themselves, which prolly triples or quadruples the speed of learning the easy basics of how to block ordinary rollovers, SHUTTING OUT EMBARASSING LOSSES to most beginners, rookies, and most amateur level players.  Don't be like a nonpro baseball pitcher who only has one decent pitch, or an amateur hockey player who only has a stroke shot with no useable slapshot or a decent backhand shot.

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 05:31:26 AM »
YES I SHOOT A PULL AND JUST STARTED UP AGAIN.

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 03:07:25 AM »
Is that even possible?
galaga
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 03:48:56 PM by KathleenJL »

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 02:30:58 PM »
Snake shot is popular because it is easy to develop, but it is not undefendable and it is not your only option. Fedreric Collingon (I hope I spelled it right) is one of the top world players and he never uses snake shots to win competitions he uses only the euro pin or front pin shots. He also uses 3 man bar bank shots and other combinations it all depens on what table he is playing at. I love how he walks the ball until he finds or makes an opening in the defense and bang! puts the ball inside.   

Oh and it is possible to do dead man shots using front pin and back pin shots.

Re: can you go as long with an open hand FP as with the rollever?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 04:56:02 PM »
I can go deadbar with a closed-handed front-pin (Warrior & Tornado, not 100%, but I can do it at least 50% pullside, less on pushside). If I can do it closed handed and at pace, open handed should be even easier.