Topic: Tornado Coin-Op - Work Needed/Repair

[Frankenstein]

Hello again,

This is a follow-up to my recent post for Tornado Coin-Op, wherein two fine forum gentlemen gave me some very good advice and insight.  This made me decide that a Coin-Op would be my next table.  Therefore, I'm reaching out again for input as I'm about to pull the trigger, or not, depending on the input you gents bestow on me here.

I missed one for $675 that sold for $600 before I could make a decision.  Kicking myself on that one, as it was indeed a beauty.  My mistake. 

I now have two other options in front of me: (both are Brown Marble)

One is a 6-hour round trip away.  He stands firm (so he says) at $400, but it appears somewhat dirty and in need of TLC. The biggest issue is a goal crack/erosion issue - the pic I have shows a serious goal chip, which leads into a horizontal crack that runs several inches long.   I am wondering if this issue can be repaired, or whether it's simply not worth the hassle?  I feel as if this is not worth the headache, but curious if anyone would bite on this and what they would offer the seller, if anything?  Obviously, the distance also precludes me from a hands-on inspection, so doubt this will be worth the pursuit unless given info here to change my mind.

The other is across town at $275.  I'm told it's been owned for 15 yrs. out of a bar and in 'great' condition.  Supposedly all is good with no warping, no bent rods, and everything intact and working, except the locks were 'drilled' out (his words).  I confirmed they were just removed and can be replaced (or so I hope).  The only issue mentioned was 'light surface rust' on a few of the rods, which he stated could easily be cleaned and removed be some polishing?  This seems like the better deal and I'll be going to inspect this evening when the call comes.  Assuming this one looks good upon inspection, any reason not to make a deal?

In writing the above, it's probably now clear that the first option is unworthy of pursuit.  It's almost cathartic to dump the mind's thoughts out on this page to get one thinking clearly.  Anyhow, I appreciate any and all comments on the above.

One last question:  In updating any brown marble (or coin-op for that matter), will they accept the newer split bearings?

Thanks,
Frankenstein

[kgstewar]

Your instincts are correct. Forget the $400 one. Sounds like a blown-out goal which is not easy to repair. $275 is a very good price. Modern coin-op parts, including bearings, will fit the brown marble.

[Frankenstein]

Your instincts are correct. Forget the $400 one. Sounds like a blown-out goal which is not easy to repair. $275 is a very good price. Modern coin-op parts, including bearings, will fit the brown marble.

Thanks again, kgstewar.  That's kind of where my head was at, but confirmation from you guys out here just adds to the reassurance, as I'm no expert by any stretch.  I'm excited at the price and hope the table is nearly as good as described.  I guess the rust on the bars worries me slightly, but hoping removal and some polishing will return them to glory.

That one for $600, upon closer inspection of the images, looked completely refurb'ed and sharp.  I have visions of cleaning one up to look that good.  Any reco's on first things to update, assuming it's needed of course?

[kgstewar]

Rust can be a non-issue or it can be a serious issue. If it's just light rust, wad up some aluminum foil, dip it in water and scrub the rod. The rust will magically disappear. Deep rust that has pitted the metal won't clean up so easily and the pits can make the rods less slippery through the bearings. If they are in really bad shape the rods are replaceable, but they are $30 each, so keep that in mind when negotiating a price.

If you buy it, first change I would make is to replace the white side strips with the clear ones. This will allow you to do bank shots. After that, I would have some new men on hand so that as your old ones break (they will) you can continuously upgrade to the new men. Might want to get new bearings, but if the old ones are in good shape, just clean them and they'll work fine. Clean everything thoroughly and get some silicone lube for the rods.  All items available at the foosball.com store.

[kgstewar]

Actually, with shipping, rods are closer to $40 each.

[papafoos]

If you are near one of the major tournaments, you may be able to bypass the shipping.  Usually the tournament directors will have some.  Email them in advance of the tournament and see if they are willing to help out.

[Frankenstein]

Rust can be a non-issue or it can be a serious issue. If it's just light rust, wad up some aluminum foil, dip it in water and scrub the rod. The rust will magically disappear. Deep rust that has pitted the metal won't clean up so easily and the pits can make the rods less slippery through the bearings. If they are in really bad shape the rods are replaceable, but they are $30 each, so keep that in mind when negotiating a price.

If you buy it, first change I would make is to replace the white side strips with the clear ones. This will allow you to do bank shots. After that, I would have some new men on hand so that as your old ones break (they will) you can continuously upgrade to the new men. Might want to get new bearings, but if the old ones are in good shape, just clean them and they'll work fine. Clean everything thoroughly and get some silicone lube for the rods.  All items available at the foosball.com store.

Thanks kgstewar, good info.  I've been checking into methods for cleaning rust, and the alum foil is simplest so far.

Last night's inspection was postponed until this evening, so hoping I own it by tonight.  The playfield trim was on my short list too, so that will be the first item I order.  The split bearing with the requisite hex nuts aren't cheap, so will see how the existing feel first, but thinking that would be next.  I know they have the new style men, so debating those, but like your suggestion of switching as necessary.  Is there any way to clean/scrub/soak the old men to get them looking new again, of needed of course?  I'm considering the scoring pegs and handles as well.  Any thoughts on the newer plastic handles versus the older maple style?  I know these are not the most important items to consider, but I'm thinking it all the way through from top to bottom.  And I will need to get new locks, as this table has none.

Actually, with shipping, rods are closer to $40 each.

I'm obviously hoping the rods come squeaky clean with no rust, therefore negating the need to replace.  And like most everyone, keeping an eye out for Merkel's along the way.  But not in a rush assuming they end up looking good and work well.

If you are near one of the major tournaments, you may be able to bypass the shipping.  Usually the tournament directors will have some.  Email them in advance of the tournament and see if they are willing to help out.

Thanks papafoos.  Being in Florida, I haven't heard of any major tournies near me.  Where does one begin to track what's up and coming?  I've checked the USTSF site and it's sad to see the last listings still reflecting old 2012 tournaments.  As a governing body, that's appalling.  Sadly, one would think the sport is dead by seeing that.

[papafoos]

Ben does a good job of keeping the majors fairly current at http://schedule.foosball.com/index.htm

Also, you can check on the local Florida foosball at http://www.netfoos.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=11

[kgstewar]

A toothbrush, dish soap, and elbow grease will probably get the men clean. If they are as bad as the men on a Bonzini I restored (http://foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=5058.msg22827#msg22827) you can try an ultrasonic cleaner. Not sure how well that would work on plastic men or if they would get damaged.

I've played on tables with the plastic handles and they are really nice. I have wooden handles but have them wrapped (use tennis racket grip wraps. Cheap, and work well) so they are pretty comfy.

As far as locks, I would get them soon. If the top of the cabinet is not latched to the bottom, the player on the lock side of the table will occasionally lift their side up during hard play and disrupt the game.

[papafoos]

Also, you can check on the local Florida foosball at http://www.netfoos.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=11

  oops, that was South Florida.  Here's a better link http://www.netfoos.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=56

[Frankenstein]

Also, you can check on the local Florida foosball at http://www.netfoos.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=11

  oops, that was South Florida.  Here's a better link http://www.netfoos.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=56

Thanks papafoos, those links will come in handy.  I see the FL State Championships being held across town from me in Feb '16 - perfect for getting my feet wet to see what the Pro's are all about.

A toothbrush, dish soap, and elbow grease will probably get the men clean. If they are as bad as the men on a Bonzini I restored (http://foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=5058.msg22827#msg22827) you can try an ultrasonic cleaner. Not sure how well that would work on plastic men or if they would get damaged.

I've played on tables with the plastic handles and they are really nice. I have wooden handles but have them wrapped (use tennis racket grip wraps. Cheap, and work well) so they are pretty comfy.

As far as locks, I would get them soon. If the top of the cabinet is not latched to the bottom, the player on the lock side of the table will occasionally lift their side up during hard play and disrupt the game.

More good input, thanks kgstewar.  That's one incredible restoration you performed on that Bonzini.

So last evening I went, I saw, I purchased.  Made the deal at $250 and picking up tomorrow (Sat) morning.  I want to think it was a steal, but probably moreso a solid deal.  It does need some work and a major cleaning, but the integrity of the table was intact, which is where my main focus was.  The playfield looked great and the goals were perfect.  I was surprised to see it had the plastic feet rather than the old metal ones, and it had the split bearings (or so it appeared).  The rods have rust which will required the "elbow grease" treatment you so aptly mentioned, but I believe they will look good when complete.  And if I need to replace a rod or two, so be it.  The players were quite dirty, two with cracks.  And several bushings were shot.  The inside is filthy and it's missing the match scoring pegs (minor).  I also noticed the metal goals were coming loose.  And lastly, other than one side of a leg without laminate, the finish on the table looked great with no chips, cracks or any noticeable damage.

I found your past thread on how to disassemble the table for a move, which is well-informing and much appreciated.  I may initially attempt to move the top without removing the rods, unless it absolutely becomes necessary.  But much depends on how easily the bearing nuts come loose.  Wishing I had the nut wrench and roll pin punch available, but need to order all these things over the weekend.  And I'd rather not scratch the finish with channel-locks, but will see how she goes.  The leg nuts and hinge removal seem fairly painless.

I plan on taking some good before photos first.  Then complete dis-assembly, in order to give it a thorough bottom up cleaning.  My current order list includes (so far): Bearing wrench, Roll pins and punch, Rod block, Men (not sure how many yet), Bumpers, Lock & Keys, Match counter rod, posts and disks, Plastic handles, and Goal deflector (if needed).  Am I missing anything?  Also, any thoughts on best way to clean bearings?  I recall reading to let them soak overnight.  Hoping they are in good shape and will not need replacing.  The rods moved okay but with the light rust and in need of lube, not sure what the final outcome will be.

All thoughts and comments are appreciated.

[Frankenstein]

Hi again Gents,

Well, the Brown Marble purchase was finalized and moved on Saturday.  With the exception of a small chip in the Formica (our fault), everything went smoothly.

The day was spent disassembling and cleaning everything.  The rusty rods (which were a bit worse than initially thought) were the biggest beast - saved all but one 5-man after a good 1-2 hours of serious aluminum foil scrubbing (tip: Remember to wear gloves).  Removing the pins from the maple handles was also not easy, but eventually got them loose.  The end result was need to replace some men (cracked), a bearing (plastic chipped), bumpers (cracked), new roll pins of course, and going to add the new plastic handles along with some balls and ancillary items.

Yesterday, I spoke with Charles at TornadoFoosball.com and after review of my order list, we had a great in-depth discussion of why/why not to order.  He gave me a tremendous amount of insight and is certainly an uber-wealth of information when it comes to these tables, not to mention the sport in general.  Many kudos to him for taking the time to educate.  The parts should arrive this week and plan to reassemble by Saturday.  Can't wait - I feel like a kid at Christmas!

Final thanks to the fine forum members who took the time to contribute much valuable information to my cause.  Without it, who knows what table I would have ended up with.  It's been a fun and enlightening experience to learn about, locate, acquire and rebuild one of the best tables made.  Couldn't have done it without your help.

Best,
Frankenstein