Topic: Foosball in the 70's

[bbtuna]

don't worry about how much time it takes...don't let your impluse keep you from buying the right table...buy a used coin op...if you don't have enough money now, wait, if you do have enough money and we will talk about you finding a good deal...I would buy either the last grey marble model and there will be plenty of those still around from pomoters or the old brown marble...if you can, do the grey marble...I will tell you more later but for now I just wanted to stop you from buying the Cyclone or Storm

gotta run for now, I will check again later or you can email me anytime or call my cell phone after work hours

bbtuna
bbt
charles
backpinrules@yahoo.com
816-665-7798

[hacker]

I'll 2nd getting a used (or new) coin-op . You will not regret it. A used coin-op will not lose much value either. Maybe try and get one if there is a big tourney near you (IFP). They sell them for a reduced price after the tourney is over.

[gcp]

Well my friends, I wish I had gotten these messages before yesterday 1:00pm central. Because I now have, seating in my screen room, a new Cyclone II. Gotta say, immediately I didn't like the "quality" of this product. I am a picky person but even to the layman there are all sort of unnecessary imperfections on this table, a sign of manufacturing and assembly sloppiness. It plays ok but I had a chance to play a coin op and this table of mine is no coin op! I'll be calling the rep to see if we can arrange a trade, today if possible. There's a tournament going on locally so, maybe he can take this back and bring me a used coin op, he has a few. And I hate to do this because it took a little over an hour to put this thing together. Oh well, live and learn....

[gcp]

Forumites, an update to my predicaments. I moved my Cyclone to the garage where I could work on it. I screwed into place a 2x6 cross member under the table, and placed two 45lb dumbbells on it. So, the table is now 90 lbs heavier and feels a bit sturdier. But there's still perceivable movement, unlike the coin ops I felt and played on yesterday. Don't know whether or not this is due to the way the table is made, the plastic corner pieces make me very suspicious as to the solidity of the design, so I'll be calling the manufacturer tomorrow in order to develop a more well informed opinion.

As I've said before, for $895 this is not a well made table. It has multiple imperfections on the legs, which have not been sanded properly, for example, with rough spots/unsanded areas all over them, the plastic adjusters are not perfectly flat, and I assume this most probably contributes to the table’s movement, the metallic inserts the plastic (of all solid materials available to the market they could have been made from, cheap plastic was chosen) adjusters screw into have four wholes in them but only two screws where screwed into each leg. Also one wood grip was cracked, plus the table's pockets were full of wood dust/leftovers. In addition to correcting most of the above imperfections I spent some time sanding the wood grips down so as to make them a bit more comfortable to the touch (sanded all the rough, sharp edges down) so now they do feel 100% more comfortable. This could have easily been done at the factory, which would have indicated an added touch of consideration for their potential customers but no, crank tables out as quickly and as unfinished as possible to minimize cost, maximize profit and the consumer be damned!! BTW, most of the table's wood grips are obviously out of round when I spin the rods....

If this is an example of Texas manufacturing/craftsmanship now days, I believe from here on I best take my chances with the Chinese  Shame on you Tornado workers for putting out such a shoddy product! And shame on you quality control personnel, if there is such a thing at this factory, for allowing this table to be shipped. Thank goodness I'm a pretty competent wood worker so I was able to finally render this table acceptable and rather playable. BTW this was the second table I had to go pick up, the first one was obviously dropped in transit with two of its plastic corner pieces broken.


 

[chance37]

I had problems with my cyclone II as well......is your cyclone II the new model or the old blonde side?  I had a problem with one of the screws in the drop pan and could not fix it without taking the cabinet apart and I wasn't even going to try.......I called my local dealer and he put me in touch with Valley/ dynamo/ brunswick and they sent me a 2000 and I paid the difference......It was definately a drawn out process becasue my dealer didn't mind dragging his feet....but in the end I was taken care of.......I LOVE my 2000 and I am very happy with the upgrade.....good luck

[chance37]

ps     I sell pool tables for a living and can attest to shotty craftmanship...........Brunswick in my industry is not known as one of those companies thay pay attention to those little things that make tables top notch........in other words they really do cut corners.....

[Bert Mccurley]

         I still have my Tornado table I won in the 70's. It's a home model of course with banked corners and men held on with screws and nuts! The "older" tables are where the sport started. I regret having sold the other tables I had won (TS, Dynamo, Challenger and a "big red" American). Having played on tables off and on all of these years, whether I like it or not, I find the game is still played with the same intensity now as then. I find the "snake shot" to be a very skillfully designed shot, I don't like it only from the standpoint that some people end up going 360 degrees with the rod. It is a very good shot when done well.
 
          As for the level of play, I find that the old days were like today, the good players deep down want to find people to play that can challenge and even beat them. Without losing you will not improve, you will stagnate. All of the shots that can be done today had a start in the "old days", some are just faster because of the evolution of the tables and the availability of devices to help the player (oh what I could have done with wraps on the handle).
 
         35 years later I still like to play every now and then (can even hold my own most of the time). All that really changed for the worst is the price to play, with two quarters you could play all night!

[Old Meister]

Two quarters Bert? The big thing was to go where a good band was playing so there was alot of people and then hold the table all night if you could. There might be 10 quarters(ten games) on the table from challengers and more than a few arguments about who's quarter was next. That's why you wanted to keep on winning. It took a long time to get back on the table if you lost. Those were good times and good players.

[gpeters]

One whole quarter?  I sometimes played on a Dueschmeister? table in a college dorm in Milwaukee that took only two dimes!  I think it spit out 11 balls instead of 9.

I like fancy shots in the 70's.  However, simplicity will win out.  I watched some youtube of Rico shooting a (closed hand?) snake shot on a Garlando table.  Beautifully executed and simple shot that I wish I had learned in the 70's.  I think the balls were too slippery back then to have good control for a front pin.  I never heard of handle wraps either in those early years, although we occasionally used a golfer's glove.  Has anyone used a high speed video to record how Rico physically shoots the snake?  It looks so awesome and easier on the arm.

Old Meister ... I sent you a private message a couple of days ago.

[Bert Mccurley]

             Two quarters, one to get a table and one to get another table after leaving one place to go somewhere else because nobody would play us anymore at the first place! Some places we would go to we would put our money down and our turn would come up and everyone would leave.   The nice thing was where we played foos a lot of times it was at foosball places where there were 16 tables, two coin-op pool tables and no video games or pinball machines! No smoking was also great! And running a place called "Tornado Shelter" with a bar next door was a plus too!

[chance37]

Ricos shot isnt a snake shot its called a Euro pin......difference being close handed as you sadi not on the wrist......

[bbtuna]

Rico's shot is a Euro Pin but it is not closed handed...the Euro Pin is done with a palm roll - his is just so smooth and tight it is hard to see ... I have tried and seen people do the front toe with a closed hand but it looks much different and is very hard to get any speed on it

[grandmaster]

The front pin (heel) roll shot, specifically the pull, was invented by Adrian Hoines in the 1960's. Jim (Red) Zellick toured Europe with it in the 1970"s as a member of Tounament Soccer's Promo Team. The lasting effect of Big Red's front pin is echoed today as the "Europin".

[chance37]

close handed what was i thinking...he keeps that thumb up......I htink its more of a popular shot on the european style tables???Not too sure though

[grandmaster]

I think we have a semantics problem. The "Costa Rican" roll shot is an open handed shot with the thumb up. The wrist shot (gripped like a motorcycle throttle) wraps the thumb around the handle to touch the index finger.