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Horton VS Fredrico

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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 05:24:43 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 08:15:44 AM by Snake Shot Blows »

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Horton VS Fredrico
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2009, 05:02:12 PM »
WashedUpOB,

Playing on a Warrior, no wingers, with ramps, with prolly the best and grippiest North American balls besides the Bonzini cork balls, WOULD NOT BE A NEUTRAL TABLE, but an added advantage for Rico.  Rico has won World Titles since the mid-90's on Tornado's, so Tornado would prolly be the ONLY neutral table.  Unless they found an old Legend or even a Striker table to play on, with their original slick (compared to Euro balls that is) balls.

It would be quite intriguing, however, if they did play on an original million-dollar-game TS browntop, or one of those mid80s Dynamo tables with the thin rubberized handles.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:05:58 PM by foozkillah »

Offline Tyler Foos

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Re: Horton VS Fredrico
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2009, 10:12:26 AM »
Friends,

The part about the 'which table they should play' really drives home just how great Rico is. The Tornado table is the least friendly table to the front pin style Fred uses, yet he is still able to adapt and be better than anyone else (barring an occasional loss here and there). Let them play a match on all the ITSF tables, then realize the conversation is really 'who is the better Tornado player', because unless you limit the bias of 'overall best player' you're not telling the whole story anyway. Rico probably plays Tornado less than 25% of his competitive time, yet look at the results and almost impenetrable domination.

                        Tyler

Offline Tyler Foos

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Re: Horton VS Fredrico
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2009, 02:37:10 PM »
Bob,

Good points, all the way around. It's a shame they couldn't have met while both were in their prime!

Tyler

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Horton VS Fredrico
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 07:50:49 PM »
Tyler,

I'd also have to add that in prolly 90% or more of all of Johnny's wins, he's had to battle Pro and ProMaster level money (North American) players from the final 16's on.

Rico and many Euros will tell you that about 70% of those Euros he played and plays (and crushes consistently) over the past 15 years were and are still at the equivalent of SemiPro or lower levels...

The best soccer players in America know where the baddest soccer is played, not in America, and the best basketball players in Europe know where the baddest proball is played, not in Europe.  I seriously doubt Rico will ever brag about crushing the equivalent of 10,000 SPs and Amateurs in his Euro career.  Johnny can, (and did hahaha)  certainly about his tour career.

And you can only argue about singles, because many of Rico's wins here were with Todd or another American PM, not some Euro he could ostensibly trust, to block money players from where pro foosball was invented.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 08:00:57 PM by foozkillah »

Offline Tyler Foos

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Re: Horton VS Fredrico
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2009, 01:40:58 PM »
Bob and Bri,

All valid points, and again I must add that I wish there were a way to do a real apples to apples comparison. As for the European competition Rico faces - he goes to Bonzini Worlds and usually mops everybody up, regardless of how they might objectively be rated - he goes and beats the best there is virtually every time. Same with Garlando, TechBall, Jupiter, and pretty much any other table you can name, including Tornado.

As for Horton - he dominated his era which had a very different set of dynamics. From the mid 70's until 1981, the only big game around was Tournament Soccer, and Horton was among those/the one who set the standard. Then TS dissolved, Dynamo cloned the Brown top TS before redesigning their tables, Stryker had a small tour, along with a couple of others, including the one man goalie Tornado. The biggest difference was that for 15 +/- years virtually all the key tour players followed the same variety mix of tables at the same time. Everyone who was anything was primarily TS for 6 years, then an 80's mix followed in the 90's by a Tornado dominant sport. Rico plays at least 5 different tables, all with different 'feel', basically at the same time. To play Tornado only a fraction of the time then come to an almost exclusively Tornado country (and a really big country at that!) and still do what he does...amazing to me. And don't forget that Inside Foos has made it easy to sit and study his game, piece by slow motion replay piece, so that by now you would think more players would have made a bigger dent in Rico's record, unless his foosball mastery is simply that far above the rest.

Again, I wish they both could have somehow met on their best table, both playing at their prime, etc. but alas, that can never happen. The closest comparison would be a Rico near his prime playing Horton who is long past his, played on Tornado.

Take care.......................................Tyler