Topic: Information on Table Changes

[TSR_Brad]

From Dave Courington...

http://www.vifa.com/pdf/2008/Table%20Letter.pdf

[bbtuna]

dang, that makes me want to go there just to try the new tables...God bless, USTSA, Terry Moore, Dave C., and Tornado for moving forward on these potential changes

one of my first 2 posts on the other board 3 years ago suggested all these changes (excpet the wall pass because it wasn't nearly as big an issue then as it is now

I know a lot of people (based on previous old board responses) will not like the idea of making banks possible but I am certain that once people get to experience the game with controlled banks, they will wonder how they ever survived without them (chip passes, standing angles especially for push and pullkicks - its just too good to be true )

I have always thought the table needed a little more control...not tons like Bonizini but a little more...this is another thing people will complain about but it will be good for beginners and pros alike...softer ball means it will wear out sooner and so people who have tables on location won't like that but they can have a "location" ball and a tournament ball...I won't mind buying them a little more often if they provide a little more control...(this coming from the bias of a backpin shooter)

a little too soft would be bad because they will get gummy and the pull shooters will complain but if we are talking just the slightest bit, I think after people get a chance to get used to the change, they will all be happy

I couldn't be more excited to hear about these changes

Thank you Dave C, Terry, the USTSA, and Tornado for being willing to look into these improvements

Thank you Brad for sharing it, and thanks to Gummy, Todd, and whoever else is testing the equipment changes

this is the biggest and best news I have heard from Tornado (by a long long shot) since I started playing (again) 4 years ago...they are listening to and involving the players (oh, and this will make the table much easier to adopt in Europe too so it is win win)

GREAT JOB so far by everyone...thank you, thank you, thank you

[marty]

great news  can'nt wait to try it have to buy the vidio so please get some coverage on it brad

[Old Meister]

SAAAWWEEEEET!

[EDGEER]

While banks are a little easier, the hollow rods nullify them alot.  If TS is 100%, then these mods get us about 70% there.  Back-pins are another issue, sorry.

[bbtuna]

as long as it doesn't make back pins harder I am okay with that...I don't understand if you are going to retool the model anyway why you just don't make the face of the man flat...can someone explain that?  it won't take away from any other part of the game

[EDGEER]

These are refinements, what your suggesting would be a total re-design.  These mods are not so radical that they will require existing table owners to replace all the men of tables on location.  While they may eventually do just that, it is a consideration that must be taken into account.

[EDGEER]

I have seen posted elsewhere questions as to why they are modifying the bearing instead of the bumper.  According to Dave Courington, the reason go's back a couple years when the rubber bumper manufacture's plant caught fire.  The original mold was destroyed in the fire and an 80-cavity replacement was made.  The parts from the new mold do not spec out the same as the original mold.  The bumpers are designed to work on both split bearing and snap-in bearing models and the new bumpers work fine on snap-in style tables.  The important thing here is the split-bearing mold is also 20years plus in age and needs replacing.  So the decision is; do they re-work the bumper mold even though the split-bearing mold is going to be replaced regardless, or do they remake the bearing mold taking into consideration the larger bumper?   Based on the situation, redesigning the new split-bearing mold when it is made is the best answer.

Also, Courington say's the ball is made from the same material as before.  The only difference is it's 15 Durometers softer.  Where as the current ball is 60 durometers, the new ball is arround 40 durometers.

[bbtuna]

all tables on site do not need to change their men right away, just as they go bad...most onsite table owners don't care enough to spend any real money but if they have some that do, then they only need to change 18-20 per table to start with which is only $70-$100 depending on how much they spend on men...$100 to bring a $1000 table into the 21st century seems like a small price...since you seem to have David's ear, please work on this...if this isn't done on this retooling, it will be another 20 years and the same issue will face them then...don't be afraid, make the right changes the first time - send him my way and let me talk to him before it is too late

on the ball, that is very interesting and good...by the way, 60 down to 40 is 20 different not 15...however, I can't get a reference point on this because I don't know what that means but it is good to know they can tweak the compond to get a desired softness

Tornado can retain its unique quality and improve its over all play for beginners, pros, and Europeans...I don't see the downside, it is a win win for everyone

[EDGEER]

Listen these changes are what US players have asked for.  They have as far as I am aware, nothing to do with the ITSF or Euro's.

[bbtuna]

one other big thing which I think will be a win win...the end of the table where the score markers are...

should not be flat..it invites people to put drinks on it and on location that means many spills over the years...take away the flat surface and it will remove the temptation...or 2 inch long razor sharp spike honed to a fine point in a matrix configuration so that there isn't more than 1.5 inches in between each spike

table surface, rods, and bearings will last longer not to metion cutting back on liability charges from people reaching their hand inside to remove broken glass

they can add drink holders (strudy nearly indestrutable drink holders) as an option or build them in as Johnny Lott was proposing on Legend

also, for tournament play, there should extra hole drilled on either side of the scoring posts for additional posts...one for games and one for time outs so they are easy to keep track of and anyone walking up will know the score and time out situation at a glance....this is 100% my idea, I have been asking for quite some time, it is free to the foosball world

[bbtuna]

that is cool, I mean, I am a "US American" and I asked for the changes but also, it makes a ton of sense for Euro sales too...this is a win, win, win...good for everyone...my God, if the table has more control, you know what that means don't you...Fredrico will be even better...AHHHHHHH, NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[EDGEER]

also, for tournament play, there should extra hole drilled on either side of the scoring posts for additional posts...one for games and one for time outs so they are easy to keep track of and anyone walking up will know the score and time out situation at a glance....this is 100% my idea, I have been asking for quite some time, it is free to the foosball world

They already do this for VIFA tables.

[chance37]

any idea on when the parts will be available to public?

[EDGEER]

I was told that they would be unveiled this fall in Vegas.