Topic: Europin effectiveness

[Old Meister]

Do many of the top pros other than Freddy use the europin? And is it used much at the semi-pro ranks?

[PatRyan]

In the US, not many people use the series effectively.  I think it is due to the limitations of the design of the tornado table, and the amount of time it takes to really make the shop effective on the tornado table.  However, on the other tables around the world, many, if not most, of the top players use the "europin" as their primary series, and use it very well! If the table allowed for the angle shots to be executed easily and consistently, it would be a much more formidable shot on the Tornado.  The cutback angles are crucial to the success of that particular series.

[bbtuna]

yea, what he said

no top US player shoots a europin as a primary shot and only 2 that I have ever heard of (one is female) have shot it in serious competition for all or most of a tournament

angles and ball control are the issues...obviously, Fred shows you it can be done on Tornado in its current configuration but if you watch Fred shoot on other tables you know that he is very much an exception...he is a freak, no THE freak, and can not be taken as a standard for how things should be or could be done

players could make it work on Tornado but it is so much work to get the same return as a pull or rollover, it is just not worth it to players...I mean, Fred has dominated for 10 years now and he has had influence on playing styles and approach yet no US players, young or old, have taken up the Euro Pin...if we played on a table that made it easier, i.e. lots of control, then we would have seen people moving to it like what happened with the rollover when Terry Moore dominated with the Snake in the early 90's

[Old Meister]

I've been playing around with it and am trying to start every shot from the same point with a static or a still start. Pin pull, pin push, fakey push, fakey pull, fakey push kick(32 to33) fakey pullkick(32 to 31) both of those with back angles, pin pull back angle, pin push back angle(hardest for me) and a semi-snake straight(palm). I usually like to rock the ball to set up a shot but it seems effective to relax, visualize and be perfectly still until the shot explodes. Imagine the goalie presented with this as a problem, I hope he tries to race but either way it's all guess work. It's fun to play,,,

[Steve]

I have been shooting that front pin a lot
i can split there men pull fake into a push just cant do the push side very well and with out it you start to get blocked its the hardest part of the shot.

[Old Meister]

I try to make the push side a tight compact shot as I like to start everything slightly left of center. The push might not be as fast as the pull but as it is so short it gets there quick enough.

[thebodygroove]

In the US, not many people use the series effectively.  I think it is due to the limitations of the design of the tornado table, and the amount of time it takes to really make the shop effective on the tornado table.  However, on the other tables around the world, many, if not most, of the top players use the "europin" as their primary series, and use it very well! If the table allowed for the angle shots to be executed easily and consistently, it would be a much more formidable shot on the Tornado.  The cutback angles are crucial to the success of that particular series.

As far as I can tell from watching many videos of the German P4P-Tour (I'm still a beginner and can't speak from my own experience), cutback angles are much less important than quick fakes. You hardly ever see angled Euro Pins in those matches since most players think practicing them interferes with consistently shooting straight into the holes.

If you watch the European pros, the Euro Pin is all about fast changes of direction with the pinned ball - that's what makes it difficult to execute on a Tornado, because the pink ball is heavier and not as sticky as the ones used on European tables.

If you don't believe me, have a look at those DVDs which you can download for free via bittorrent:

http://www.fooserama.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=63

Euro Pins galore!

[Billings Semi-pro]

I can smack front pins down all day on Tornado.  I can't wait until I have some free time to practice up and hit some events.

Jeremy

[Billings Semi-pro]

Is it used much at the semi-pro ranks?

When I played in Colorado state (2005) there was only two players using a front pin during the tourney in semi pro events.  Not very many american players use it as there "A" game.  In fact there was a german player (last name Marx) who was there and he could shoot a good front pin but would only use his roller in the tourney.  It is a tough shot to have high percentages with.  I plan on using the front pin when I can find time to actually tour. 

Jeremy

[Billings Semi-pro]

I bet, I can make my front pin on BBtuna enough for him to change his opinion.  I may be a semi-pro but if I was to actually practice and tour I would be pro for sure.  I have smaked down several pros and promasters with my front pin.  It does take a lot of practice and I agree it is not for everyone.  However, if you think you can't be beat with it in a major in semi-pros or open events then I beg to differ. 

[bbtuna]

Billings,

I never commented on the quality of the shot or weather it could win at one level or another...I was just saying it generally isn't used by US players and especially among TOP players...I said,

"players could make it work on Tornado but it is so much work to get the same return as a pull or rollover, it is just not worth it to players"

I think all shots are good and their potential for success is directly correlated to the table and the commitment of player

hey, I shoot a backpin, you aren't going to catch me doggin other shots

[EDGEER]

I think the Warrior table will be a good canidate for a Euro.  Smaller hole, good angles etc.  We will see.

[thebodygroove]

I think the Warrior table will be a good canidate for a Euro.  Smaller hole, good angles etc.  We will see.

Sounds interesting. What about ball control/grip?

By the way: The first videos from the P4P European Championships are now online. You can download the DVDs via Bittorrent for free:

http://foostracker.homeftp.org/rss2.php

[TORRENT] P4P-EM 2008 1_5
Table Soccer Videos - P4P-EM 2008 - 1/5

1. D.Y.P. Final
Jürgen Güntherodt / Frédéric Collignon — Philipp Achtmann / Johannes Müller

2. Rookie Doubles Final
Mathias Ellwanger / Uli Furrer — Timo Weickenmeier / Daniel Burghardt

3. Open Doubles Semi-Final (winners' bracket)
Robert Stein / Frank Brauns — Michael Strauss / Roland Töppe

4. Rookie Singles
Martin Riedo — Marcel Glaus

5. Mixed
Björn Brose / Sabine Steinlechner — Carola Sidiropoulou / Dirk Wahl

6. Open Doubles
Björn Brose / Sven Hartmann — Gilles Perrin / Christian Szüle

7. Rookie Singles Final
Johan Verhofstadt — Martin Riedo


[TORRENT] P4P-EM 2008 2_5
Table Soccer Videos - P4P-EM 2008 - 2/5

8. Open Doubles
Frédéric Collignon / Billy Pappas — Robin Hanke / Ronnie Falk

9. Open Doubles
Frédéric Collignon / Billy Pappas — Michael Strauss / Roland Töppe

10. Amateur Doubles
Dirk Hoppe / Arno Beringhoff — Johannes Kirsch / Natalie Jacob

11.Open Doubles Finale
Frédéric Collignon / Billy Pappas — Robert Stein / Frank Brauns

12.Open Singles
Frédéric Collignon — Marc Balic

13.Open Singles
Billy Pappas — Frank Brauns

Enjoy!

[thebodygroove]

Has anyone watched those DVDs yet? And those who have, how do you like them?

[bbtuna]

in what ways?  the table, the video quality, the players, the play style on P4P?