Topic: I am one of the Top 3 Players in the World and I don't Practice.

[bbtuna]

Okay, I gotta say something...can't vent on the other board so here goes...there is a thread over there called Why Rico Dominates USA Players ! (http://foosballboard.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8651&sid=efbf602319b8027cda561bc05900676b)

the title was meant to grab people's attention because Greg had something to say about tournaments...I don't want to talk about that on this thread...as Greg’s thread goes on, people start to talk about why Rico Dominates

I NEVER PRACTICE (and I am proud of it)
there is a discussion about who practices etc and this is the point of this thread...over the last couple years, I can't tell you how many times I have read from Billy, Brandon, Lou, and Frenando, to name a few, how they never practice, the game is boring, nothing to play for etc

I have heard this "I don't practice” mantra from other players at other levels as well...I totally respect the skills and experience that Billy and the others have developed over the years so I am trying to be respectful however I totally disrespect people saying “I don’t practice”

these people, the top players and others I have read that say "I don't ever practice" say it like it is some sort of badge of honor..."Look how good I am and I never practice" or is it saying to me "This game is stupid, I don't know why I bother, I don't care if I win or loose" and/or "I am not motivated and I don't care (oh, and I am going to kick most of your butts anyway)"

Where is the drive, where is the fire, where is the passion to be the best?  Not because there is money in it, unless you are Rico winning everything in sight you aren't going to make any money playing foosball (or barely enough to pay your way) - where is the "love of the game" and the passion to redefine the sport

there have been many examples in history of games or sports which paid little or nothing that had dedicated players who gave their life to being the best they could be during their era - Why did they do it?   PRIDE, a PASSION to BE THE BEST, and/or a Love of the Game

as far as I know, there is not ONE person like this in foosball today NOT ONE...that is shameful, I am embarrassed about it...oh, you see players in the beginning of their career dedicate themselves (this is how they vault to PM when they are young i.e. Ryan, Kane, Daniel, Blake) but no one continues

what would the sport look like today if there were 3 to 5 players who worked at their craft 4 to 8 hours a day, every day, year in and year out for their entire career 20 to 30 years...UNTHINKABLE what might happen.

If you don’t practice, don’t brag about, don’t whine about how little foosball has to offer and it isn’t worth your time…keep quiet and at least leave people with the idea that you must practice as good as you are…respect the sport or leave it...or better yet, get after it and redefine the sport

[MR.STEVE]

No practice that must be what there doing befor there matches off in a corner alone on a table..

[bbtuna]

i am not talking about practicing a couple weeks before a tournament or at a tournament...do you think that is how MJ, Bird, Phelps created the careers they had?  besides, that isn't practice, it is warm up

[thebodygroove]

Foosball isn't Basketball or swimming. It's not athletic. If Phelps stops training for two weeks, any little girl can swim rings around him, because how well you swim mainly depends on your condition. But Foosball is about skills. Once you've taught your body how to do something, it can do it. Very little practice is needed to keep your level, at least compared to athletic sports.

But I still think you're right. The problem with foosball is that except for the foosers themselves, no one cares about it, no one likes to watch it, no one pays any money for anything in Foosball. That means there is no real competition. It's that simple.   

[bbtuna]

body, thanks for the reply however

yes, endurance sports require special conditioning but the kind of practice that Larry Bird and MJ and Pistol Pete Maravich put in in BB was not primarily conditioning

my analogy could be moved to art and music...the top players today have proven that when you get to a certain level you can maintain 90-95% of that with a minimalist approach to "practice" (warm up really in their case)

but what about someone who wasn't satisfied with their skills and where is the person who wants to push the envelope on the sport redefining the sport?

I am not saying no one cares about foosball, I am saying no one cares like totally crazy life-time maniac committment

no one pays anything, that is true, no one (but foosers), for now, like to watch foosball and that is true but that is my point...where is the totally sold out person who doesn't care about that stuff and will sacrifice anything to acheive goals and set records and redefine the game? Where is the passion, the long-term enduring passion? 

[MR.STEVE]

It`s in the beginners,rookies, and amteur classes these are the driveing force in foos, They watch it breath it and play every chance they get, if they get beat they can`t wait to try again. I have not seen any excitment in a big finales match since the 70s Tony Bacon shows excitement,now its just another match Speederman vs. Ryan on utube good match like watching paint dry. We need to put the prize money back in the lower classiffications I hate to say it but J Horton is the Ali of foos .Thats the desire and drive to be the best you cant stop people like that they will play harder than anyone to win. That is for the most part gone today..

[noops]

Thebodygroove,

I don't know as much about foosball but I suspect it's a perishable skill.  Sure, you can beat most folk if you're great, but you will lose a step.  Besides foosball, I also do IPSC/USPSA shooting.  Some of that is athletic, but some of it is finite motor skill like you talk about.  If you don't practice it, you lose it.  Watch some videos of top shooters on You Tube and you'll see why.  I'm nowhere near as good at foosball as I am at shooting, but I think it probably has roughly equivalent perishability to  say, practicing trigger pull, which is indeed perishable.

Now, my trigger pull will always be better because I spent years doing hundreds or thousands PER DAY with and without live ammo.  So yeah, I could probably still do OK.  But I think BBTuna's point about "where would the sport be if everyone practiced like that" is spot on.  You see that in IPSC and USPSA.  Some of the finishes among the top shooters are just impossible close.  I'm a little surprised it's not like that here, but like I said, I've only been playing competitive foosball for 1 year (and not very competitively), whil I've been shooting competitively for almost 20.

[bbtuna]

Maybe you've heard of their work ethic and committment to the game?  Yea, they had something to play for, but I think this kind of person does this for themselves more than anything else...money alone won't sustain this kind of drive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y5KAaercTI

listen to 1:30 seconds the further the video goes along, the better it gets in terms of watching his game

isn't there somebody who wants us to remember their name? (some bad language on the song that plays with this)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFxXSXGd4hs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU

[bbtuna]

foosball errods slowly...it isn't dependent on 1 or 2 strokes...lots of variables so if you have a ton of skill built up you will loose what you have slowly...however, you loose the "edge" faster than you think...that is why Terry Moore stopped winning...it isn't his ability, competiveness, pressure play, etc...it is that he has lost that little edge that seperates the top couple from the rest

[Fastert]

I agree with you on that, I didn't play  for almost 4 years, and when I picked the game back up I noticed that I lost the sharp look on the game a little, but WITH training and a lot of playing it's coming back slowly, so what you say on that somebody trains from the beginning till the end, I think he will keep the sharpness and evolve the play.

[bbtuna]

Fastert, that is exactly it

I am looking for legendary passion like stories I hear of musicians who gave their lives, broke and living in poverty, to pursue their love and some of them, eventually got enough notice that we now know them but even if they were never "discovered" they would have continued to play because they loved it

every so often, a creative genius is born and that is what I am talking about

it isn't practice alone, it is passsion...realy passion will bring practice or "whatever it takes" to learn, grow, and win

who will redefine foosball with a devoted passionate full lifetime of foos?  Fred is the closest I have seen in my lifetime (51)...in the TS years there were a bundle of people committed to 8 hour plus days and because of it people came out of nowhere with greatness but all of them died out one at a time with the exception of Todd and even he eventually stopped practicing

what might happen if Fred or Billy or Tony or Terry or the young up and comers (Ryan, Nate, etc) commiited themselves fulltime everyday, 7 days a week (4 to 10 hours of practice/work out a day) for the next 3, 5, 10 years...who knows what the face of foosball would look like then and what bar would be set for everyone else wanting to attain greatness

[Daniel]

That is a huge sacrifice for what to be know as the great fooser I mean that would be cool but it does not pay.  You could work a minimum wage job and make more money than the greatest fooser (that sucks). 

[bbtuna]

yes, I agree but there are people throughout history who pursed something with great unparalleled passion just because they loved what they did and/or they were captured by the vision of seeing what could be accomplished in their field of interest

the money and fame aren't there, but that doesn't mean the passion for greatness has to be missing, it just means when it is there, it is more pure.


Where is the passion?

[Old Meister]

Interesting post Bbtuna. When I stopped playing in the early 80's I was heartbroken as I was at the top of my game with nowhere to play. I was playing really good pros in Portland and beating them and then the bottom dropped out. Through all those years I would relive those matches that mattered and think about the shots I did to beat those great players. So when I came back to the game I expected to be able to perform as I had. You suggested "American Idol syndrome" when you read my posts. As became acquainted with today's game, on Tornados, I saw some truth in that statement I guess. But the truth be known I know where I will end up at in my game because it's still there inside and I'm getting closer and closer to again being that player. So someday I will hopefully get to play or partner with you and show the color of my game. I now have a brown marble coin-op to get real on and it's happening, passion is definitely there,lol. I practice all the time, every day, with the top guys videos in mind.

[bbtuna]

OM,

I can totally relate to where you are at and when I talked about assessing your skills, I was doing it with my own journey in mind...I thought I would have it all back in 3 to 6 months, a year max but it has been a much slower journey than that

however I can say i am better in every way now than I was then except pure lateral speed and consistent execution...I think at my age, those are permanent issues

however, I can say I was  a person with the vision I talk about here...well, close, since I didn't keep going, I guess I really didn't have it...however, I know what the dream is aned I know what it is to put in 12-18 hours a day 6-8 hours of personal practice

i would love to play sometime, lets see if we can make it happen sometime next year