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Different Pull Shots Practice

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Offline Will17

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Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 12:51:06 AM »
haha, he's only 4. the pull shot advice is for me, i just don't like being called a kid thats all. aiden is getting pretty good for a 4 year old, but he shoots a pull kick ;) - I have rubbermade containers on his side of the table that he stands on and walks between, its pretty fun. when he gets his pull down, give it a few years... but when it happens i'll teach him to shoot every shot on the table, he will have enough time to get good at them all before he can play in tournaments anyway haha. both of you.. thanks for the advice on this. good thread.

Offline bbtuna

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Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2008, 12:55:49 PM »
very detailed and I apprecaite you taking the time, problem is without video and better definition of terms, I am not certain what you mean at a number of key points - can you provide some video with commentary?

okay, basically what you are saying is that you need to learn proper mechanics...I was not arguing for the best mechanic method, we first talked about telling someone to practice deadman

I still would never recommend someone to practice deadman...practice the squared off/7 stroke yes, but deadman "No"...especially for a beginner

not sure what this is a response too "I'll wager you enjoyed your first deadbar around either post on either side with your backpin.  AND the inside out internal shots on the splits, too!  Yes, and did you have difficulty switching to frontpin and trying to go hard and square on the push side, too, didn't you?"

do you mean this in response to my thumb not being up any longer?  Because I could do all those things before removing the thumb...I will say that cut backs on my BP are easier without my thumb up but that wasn't the reason for the change...it has adversley impacted my fake push BP which goes into a push shot which used to be money for me...I still may figure it out but so far not so much

Euro push side?  Well, Euro push side is harder for everyone...very hard to get out around it...don't know if you are connecting this to the thumb or not but I will note, Fred shoots the EP with his thumb up on the rod...just a little somepin somepin ta consitter...hard to do an open hand with your thumb wraped on the rod

i removed my thumb to shoot the pull from goal better and to see what impact it would have on my pull up front...both were positive and so I thought what the hey, I wonder what this is like on the BP and I have liked it well enough and the transition was easy enough that I stuck with it

Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 05:08:36 PM »
So you're saying that you are too slow and can't beat the goalie so you need to try and go way out around him?  Well go ahead and practice the extreme long deadman shot....  you'll be hitting the wall late in the tournament when the pressure is on and your adrenalin is pumping.   

Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 09:21:34 AM »
Going to go pick up a table right now. Will hopefully start practicing on some of this stuff late tonight after work.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2008, 07:56:34 PM »
So you're saying that you are too slow and can't beat the goalie so you need to try and go way out around him?  Well go ahead and practice the extreme long deadman shot....  you'll be hitting the wall late in the tournament when the pressure is on and your adrenalin is pumping.

First fallacy, WG, is that every goalkeeper you try to pull against will be racing you.  You shouldn't assume every goalkeeper is a tool or a retard, especially at SemiPro or higher level, relying on one moronic defensive series.  Just the nature of modern foos with all the rollovers and now even frontpin series forces most higher level goalkeepers to use several series and adjust them.  They may properly keep the same philosophy, but have even completely different looking series against a good shooter.

Correct philosophy is that most pull shooters have practiced 2,3, maybe four at most, shots to score.  And they usually have only one or two major kill lanes (trigger points up north, release points or kill lanes down here) that they've burned into their muscle memory and eye-hand coordination.  This is easily proven by taking every damn video you ever saw on Pro or PM shooters and see which lanes or trigger points they wait to hit.  I daresay they hit the other lanes a lot less than the ones they try to groove on, less than 5%.  Which is why you see goalkeepers roving around and observing whatever shooting they can from future forwards they will have to defend, to scout those trigger points.  yes, even PM's, and especially if they haven't defended a forward much or haven't profiled them well, yet.

Modern D insists that you can do any series you want, as long as you end up at release or shot time with a high percentage, perhaps 80-95%, with your goalkeeper player and nearest 2bar player blocking at or very near two of those lanes.  Most tool and retard goalkeepers try to mimic defensive series without realizing the underlying philosophy, ending up at shot time with their players in lanes that the shooter may shoot, probably accidentally, once every decade (I'm serious!).  Even when the forward mish*ts and scores, they often do not feel good because they definitely did not help themselves get into their groove, which is even more important for all the other points.  When the adrenalin's pumping, WG, you will rely on muscle memory and shoot the shot at that one or two lanes you've shot a trillion times in practice and tournament.  The highest level is always played with percentages, just as pitch counts & strike zone areas in baseball, positional play in D and in shooting in basketball, and man2 or man3 coverage in football.

2nd fallacy, WG, is that it takes a lot more to execute an square long pull, supposedly failing to hit on goal when pumped up.  This is a classic example of completely wrong pull technique, not using longitudal or lateral spin.  Over cranking with the correct technique actually ends up with a mini 7.  And I have never seen TMac or Todd Loffredo strain as they shoot deadbars or 7s.  Only the tools and retards using local bar technique that you describe.  With the correct technique, it's actually harder to concentrate and hit inside, because there are always two players that are at or near the center.  Shooting smooth longs on an overzealous goalkeeper who snaps to shut down the 3/4  (wrong lane) is a staple, no blinding speed needed.  And a square pull developed with discipline from shooting square longs helps hide the shot if you're going for a hole behind a jumping racer, leaving the 1/4 or so open, or a split.  Multiple releases, much more visible to the goalkeeper, are perfect tells working against the shooter, versus the exact same square takeoff in the correct technique.

Over the past 15 years, I've seen Tom Yore, Todd Loffredo, the Smiths, and Tmac and Johnny Horton practice a hundred square longs with their other holes, and do exactly the same shot so many times in a match when the square long was open, AFTER the goalkeeper moved, without once breaking a sweat or even looking excited.  Smoothness and correct technique was the key, keeping all their options open, and not breaking down like a caveman.

The sad part is that a lot of prospective pull shooters never figure out the mindblowingly easy technique for shooting square longs and sidewinder 7's, despite all these vids all over AOL, YouTube, Yahoo Videos, etc.. and what, maybe 80 of the top 160 vids or DVDs from Inside Foos.  The technique does not use any yank (elbow never goes back more than 2-3 inches) and relies on potential to kinetic energy to explode forward into the goal, no Hagar the Horrible punch or return motion except to complete the follow through.  I recently taught a 14 yr old beginner down here, then a 54 yr old comebacker, who was using the cranking idiot technique you just described, and they're both easily stroking deadbars after shooting a couple hundred strokes seriously on their tables.  The kid, is having fun and has fans, even Charlies Mackintosh, Hicok and Qbert from NC, several Orlando & Tampa pros among others who came down for our South Florida championships.  Too bad he's also top 10 in the Juniors in tennis, which has to be his concentration.  The other, Bobby, is teaching the technique to his 22 year old son, and mentally kicks himself for all the 20+ years of wasted pulls.  And with him, we actually now have another pullshooter making the money in our locals, among all these "darkside" rollover doot-de-doots.

Back when I drew Tom Yore in the 06 Florida States Open, I had the great opportunity to see how smoothly his long was executed on other Pro and PM goalkeepers.  That plus his straight and 1/4 that looked exactly the same at takeoff.  He also helped me fight the optical illusion generated by correct technique, memorizing the opposing forwards' lanes with his help, and making sure I was there 90% of the time.  It sure helped against Rich Wight, Terry, Bobby D, Starman, Rick Ino and other PM's.  That and about 5 other Pro and high Expert teams.  Oh, and yeah, we won that one, by the way.

Nonretarded Goal Techniques for Tools out there.. that's what I'd call the vid I hope to make.  Prosthetic Steel-toed Boot leg included for all those old time yankers, so they can atone.

Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2008, 10:14:52 AM »
Chi & release if effortless.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2008, 07:59:03 PM »
Chi & release if effortless.

Exx -Smack - tly!!! :D

Offline Will17

  • 264
Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2008, 11:55:58 PM »
can you list a few video's that you think are the best to watch, not just player names but links to specific video's of people shooting without there elbow moving? my elbow certainly moves when i shoot, i need to see it. thx for the long posts on this topic everyone.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Different Pull Shots Practice
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 12:55:40 AM »
can you list a few video's that you think are the best to watch, not just player names but links to specific video's of people shooting without there elbow moving? my elbow certainly moves when i shoot, i need to see it. thx for the long posts on this topic everyone.

Here's a trick, get an old belt, or better yet, a long enough gartered rope with a little "give" in it, like those old workout bungee-style ropes one used to attach to the doorknob and such.  Set up for a standard pull on your table, with the ball at the maximum pull set.  Wrap the belt or rope at the bottom of your upper arm, right above the elbow.  Fasten the other end to the fooshole or even the top of the front right leg of your table.  Try shooting longs, at least 3/4's.  The strap will force you to create an "S" as you pull, forcing the wrist to go up while keeping the elbow and upper arm in roughly the same spatial position.

That's the first clue.. If you cannot shoot the 3/4 or long while strapped, that instantly means your pull technique is local bar moron style.   This fastening completely shuts down any "yank".  Add a complete hammer grip with the thumb loose, and learn to shoot while twisting your arm from the elbow to the handle into an "S", similar to the flex right before a correct punch.  Also the same motion as opening a right-hinged door with a clockwise twist and closing it again.

A lot of "yankers" are silly... You never see them open a door with their forearm locked and moving the elbow and shoulder, or shifting gears in stickshift cars by locking their wrist and forearm and moving their elbow AND SHOULDER like a complete retard to shift gears.  But shooting pulls?  Oh jeez... maybe something about happy hour and beer and mixed drinks dissolves their brain tissue.  Can't be just an urban legend.

Oh and yeah, the right-hinged door analogy is almost perfect, especially when you open the door and see Jason in a mask with a grisly bolo in one hand and a bloody axe in the other.  You realize it isn't Halloween and he ain't trick or treatin'.  You close the door very smoothly and accidentally break all world records in locking the deadbolts, while trying to remember if you locked the door to the garage and where you last left the cordless phone when you ordered that pizza.