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Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition

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Hello,
I know there are a lot of die hard players on this board.  I apprecate your insight and vast years of experience.   I'm just a casual player and used to play in college just for fun at our local bars in NC.  All the tables we used to play on were rene pierre coin- op.  I'm looking one of these in good condition (not new) if anyone has any idea where to find a good one, doesn't matter if it's coin op or not.  I have scoured craigslist, ebay and even placed wanted ads on amazon and CL.
I'm willing to pay 800-900 for the table (shipped), as I can get a new one shipped for 1025 of the le champion.
I'm sure there are other better bargains out there on tornado's, bonzini's etc.  But this is one that would bring back some nostalgia for me.
Anyone know of a good source for gaming company rental purchases, or any of these tables collecting dust somewhere? Ideally in the DC Metro area, but shipping is ok too.

Cheers,
Ryan (northern va)

Offline papafoos

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Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 01:54:11 PM »
Since this is for nostalgic purposes, I won't try to steer you to a different brand.

Alan Cribbs might be able to help you out.  If he doesn't have one, he might know someone who does.

Offline PatRyan

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Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 04:10:27 PM »
Wow!  Another french style player in the DC Metro area?  Good luck finding the RP in this area.  I haven't seen one in YEARS! (Not counting the one in a friend's basement that I practice on, and that's a Bonzini).  There is ONE Bonzini on location in the area at a place (Bistro Du Coin) in DC.  But no Rene Pierres.  Let me know if you want to get together for a game or two sometime.  The Bonzini plays very similar. 

Also, Alan Cribbs reads the boards here. I am sure he'll chime in if he knows of one somewhere.

Later,

Pat

Offline PatRyan

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Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2008, 04:16:02 PM »
Craigslist had 2 that I found, they are both in the VA Beach/Hampton Roads area.

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/tag/905646606.html

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/tag/902327413.html

They seem to want about 850-900.  should be able to get them down a little though.

Pat

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 10:27:52 PM »
Well Gents (and ladies) I'm happy to report connecting with the seller in Norfolk (thanks PatRyan) and the table was the commercial style solid wood version, not the mdf ones currently for sale.
It looked in good enough shape and I just brought it home tonight. (I did get it for a little less than ask).  They guy was really nice and I could tell he hated to see it go.
It is the non-coin op model of the exact table found in most of the bars in Wilmington, NC and Wrightsville beach (if anyone knows the area). 
If anyone is interested I should be able to post pics this weekend.
Cheers,
Ryan

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 12:22:00 AM »
Welcome to the board Ryan.
Take a look at www.bonziniusa.com.
We will be celebrating our 10th Anniversary November 15th.


We are a group of former RP players from the 70's and 80's that have switch over to the Bonzini brand.
It turns out the RP was sued by Bonzini for making fradulent copies of their table.
I am very familiar with the Wilmington and Wrightsville Beach area.
We hold our annual NC State Foosball Championships in Wilmington.

I am definately interested in increasing the Bonzini style player base in Northen VA. Try to make it to one of our future events.


Alan Cribbs
Bonzini U.S.A.


Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 10:04:08 AM »
Great to hear that you found the table you were looking for.  I saw this ebay item (below) the other day and was going to post it for you but it looks like you're all set.  This RP table is the type that I used to play on as a teen up in Northern Ontario, Canada - probably an older model than you were referring to.  I couldn't believe it when I saw it - I was looking for one of these a fews years back (I ended up with a Bonzini and couldn't be happier with it though).  However, this table is in Toronto (where I am now) and I have the feeling that I won't let it slip away.  You can definitely see how they were completely ripping off the Bonzini style though.  On that note, a lot of the French brands (e.g. Sulpie, Petiot) have that similar look.  All I have to do is convince my wife that having two foosball tables in the living room isn't out of the ordinary.

Todd

http://cgi.ebay.ca/RENE-PIERRE-RARE-ANTIQUE-FOOSBALL-SOCCER-TABLE_W0QQitemZ110310205884QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110310205884&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 11:33:55 PM »
Thanks Alan and Todd,

I feel welcome after being an outcast by my friends for my french style preference for years. :) 

Todd, I looked at the table and thought it would be great, but 350 to ship was a bit out of my range.  The table I picked up is identical but not with the coin slots on the ends or the coin-op mechanism and key.   I can't talk you into it of course, but I think if I were local, that would have been the table for me. ;)  In my search I had only found two like these.  The rest were home style setups which I'm sure are fine.  Maybe I'm looking with the wrong search criteria.  Are they worth much nowadays?

Alan, I appreciate the invitation. I was amazed when I follow some of the links to see you're a legend!  Pretty amazing your level of play and involvement.
I get down to Wilmington a couple of times a year, so I'd be curious when the tournament is if it coincides.  Congrats on your anniversary tomorrow, er.. in 30 minutes!
I also can clearly see how the design is very "similar" ;) between the RP tables and Bonzini.  Is there bad blood between them still? Am I poking at a hornets nest?

Cheers,

Ryan

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 09:33:30 AM »
Hey Ryan

Ya - shipping costs can be huge for tables.  Enough to not make it worth the cost.  I'm actually glad that you found a table because I'm picking up that RP tomorrow - it's destined for the cottage so I'll never be away from a table.  I dropped by the vendor's place and checked it out.  It needs a little TLC but it is certainly playable.  Most importantly I managed to bring down the price substantially - you'd never believe what I got it for - I actually feel quilty ($400 US out the door).  The guy seemed anxious to get it off his showroom floor.  I convinced him that no one else in this area would buy it and if I didn't take it -- it would be there for quite a while.  Up here in Toronto the French foosball scene is non-existent - there are tons of Italian style FABI tables (block foot) and a rare Tornado here and there but not a French table to be found anywhere so I just have to create my own scene amongst friends.  You should feel lucky to have other French tables and players within driving distance.

With respect to bad blood between Bonzini and RP, my impression is that it is pretty much ancient history.  Bonzini has concentrated on babyfoot and most of RP's business is pool/billiard tables.  I think it is generally accepted that Bonzini is "THE" French brand for foosball though RP still makes a number of typically lower quality tables.

And Alan

Congrats on the anniversary - you certainly should be applauded for the the work you do to promote Bonzini and I'm envious of the players in your area who benefit from it.  I will make it down there sometime for one of your tourneys - I'm not sure when but I will.  Do you have a tentative 2009 schedule yet??

best regards
Todd

ps
Know where I can get RP parts if required?  Do you still play on the old RP's? Do you have one?


Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 02:43:55 AM »
Todd, Ryan,

I would not say there is still bad blood between the companies. I personally have no use for RP products or retailers that sell them. To me, they still remain a low end quality knockoff that can confuse the consumer. We get bombarded with calls about replacement parts for RP tables all the time and have to say "No can Help". I'm sure the Bonzini price has help vault current RP sells and customer disappointment in the quality. Remember I spent my first 24 year of foos playing and organizing (low scale) events on RP tables. It was a huge downer to find out it was a fradulent copy according to the French court system. I have no regrets at all switching to Bonzini tables. Their track record on consistency and quality is umatched. For 60 years their design has not changed.

We have many former RP customers bite the bullet and get a Bonzini which they know will last them for generations. Legendary RP fooser John Hayes is now playing the B-90 as of last week. John's story is featured the the World Table-Soccer Alamanac. Truly a pioneer in the game. Our ability to customize tables for corporation marketing events is growing annually. Anyone can put a table out on a tradeshow floor, but we design a program that will attracts a competitors client and hold them there. There is so much more to growing the game of foosball than just trying to buy the players.

Ryan,

You definately need to make it to one of our events and shed the outcast feeling. In the foos world you have the givers and the takers. Our player base, for the most part, understands that for the game to grow they need to keep a sense of public awareness about themselves. Usually our field of players can quote to a complete stranger observing the purpose and format of the event they are attending. Attitudes and egos are checked at the door, that way they are easy for one to pick up on their way out if they have a different agenda at our events. We are here to help. You may be at the beginning of establishing a new Bonzini U.S.A. players organization in the DC area.
We are really placing additional attention for the 2009 NC State Foosball Championships in Wilmington, NC on October 2,3, and 4.
It will be the 35th Annual NC State Foosball Championships and we hope to assemble some the early greats to attend and hang out. Make your plans to attend. ;D

Todd,

Unofficially, we have this planned for 2009:

Feb. 6-7
Crystal Coast Foosball Challenge
Atlantic Beach, NC
Domestic Violence Assistance of Carteret County

March 20-22 (original date changed to accommodate player going to the HOFC)
NC Open
Raleigh, NC
Jimmy V Foundation Cancer Research

May 1-2
SC State Foosball Championships
Columbia, SC
Alzhieimer Research Center

May 21-24
Bonzini World Championships
Eaubonne, FR

July 17-19
VA State Foosball Championships
Staunton, VA
AMC Hospice

Oct. 2-4
NC State Foosball Championships
Wilmington, NC
Boys and Girls Club

Nov 13-14
Twin City Foosball Bash
(Corporate and Tour Event)
Winston-Salem, NC
Brenners Children's Hospital

I hope to have all the hotel room blocks, posters, sponsor forms and paperwork done for the 2009 season done over Thanksgiving Holiday.

Thanks for the kind words on our 10th anniversary. It has been a long journey and when I think of all the players and people that I've come in contact with over the past 35 years of playing, it becomes a little overwhelming. After being the typical foosball player in the 70's and 80's, I thought the perception and persona of our game could be taken to the next level with the founding of Bonzini U.S.A. I believe we are headed in the right direction. To date we've raised over $130,000.00 for charitable donations since 2001. We've donated quite a few tables in the process. We've visited hospitals, Boy's and Gilrs Club and schools and introduced hundreds of kids to the game. We've given many players an opportunity to revisit a lost youth and regain a passion for game they thought was lost forever. We have established an organization that allows parents to bring their kids in to show them their game. Bonzini U.S.A. has had exposure in many marketing venues and corporate outings. The table and organization lets a player, when asked "What do you do for fun"?, clearly and proudly state that "I play on the Bonzini U.S.A. Foosball Tour and we support (such and such) local charity. Come on out and check out the event". We run "ZERO Profit" tournaments because I've never felt the game has progressed to the point of making a living off of other players. I know how much it cost for a player to travel and compete at one of our events. There time away from family, added expense of entry fees, food, hotels are the motivating factors for Bonzini U.S.A. to produce events that entertain and fulfill a players need for competition. At the sametime, we desire to keep the events small scale to achieve those goals. I've seen some try to pit our organization against others for whatever reason, but we remain independent from the manufacturer. We are a player owned and operated entity that has chosen the Bonzini table to convey our mission. Just a different table with a different focus.

One question I posed to our Bonzini Yahoo Group was "Without the formation of Bonzini U.S.A, where would you and your relationship with foosball be? I got some really good responses.

I hope to shoot a YouTube video going over the past 10 years and post pretty soon.

We will expand our presence in 2009. There are a few new locations that have asked specifically for a Bonzini U.S.A. Foosball event. We will do everything possible to bring Bonzini U.S.A. Foosball events to those areas. I hope to start training again as a player. My goal is to play well enough to represent the U.S. in May at the Bonzini World Championships. I really love this game alot and idolized athletes like Ben Hogan who were relentless practitioners. As soon as the schedule is nailed down, I'll be hitting the table.

Bonzini U.S.A.- "Where the game is played with as much imagination, as skill".

Later guys
AC



« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 07:34:33 AM by Alan Cribbs »

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2008, 10:58:47 AM »
Alan

Thanks for the thorough response.  The May 2009 tourney you're having may be a possibility for me for a couple of reasons.  The timing is good and the bonus is that my wife works for the Alzheimer Society of Canada - How could she object to me taking off for such a good cause?  ;D  I also may try to make it to one of the Quebec Association's events.  However, they are not much closer to me than NC.  I'm just thirsting to be amongst a serious group of Bonzini players as I'm sure it would be eye opening from a skill level point of view.   In the meantime, I'm still steadfastly working on my own Bonzini group up here in Toronto.

As far as the RP / Bonzini quality difference I can certainly attest to it - especially as I now can compare directly.  Mind you, I'm comparing a fairly current B-90 versus a circa 70's/80's (??) used RP coin-op (by the way, can you tell from the e-bay item post above what year this RP table is from).  A couple years back when I was looking for an RP and ended up getting a Bonzini I wasn't aware of what a difference there was.  My RP days were back in the 80's and the memories were fairly faded as far as details go.  I did know, however, that the French table style was the one for me.  When I started researching to get a table, the newer RP models were a far cry from what I remembered and all roads led to the Bonzini.  I really got the old RP for nostalgia's sake and the price seemed right.  The fact is, in my area the majority have never heard of - let alone played on - a French style table.  I got my Bonzini from Quebec and, as you said, they aren't cheap.  But you get what you pay for.  I just couldn't justify another 2 Grand for a "cottage" table.  To put it simply though, the Bonzini quality is just so far superior - you can really tell this when you're taking the tables apart.

With respect to the fraudulent copy RP turned out to be - I'd love to get details on the French court's decision.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the Sulpie ( http://www.baby-foot.com/index.htm ) and Petiot ( http://www.babyfoot.com.fr/v_francais/index_fr.htm ) babyfoot tables are also similar to the Bonzini design. I wonder if Bonzini went after them.  From my point of view these tables are no less similar to the Bonzini than the RP.  Have you ever tried these tables?

Anyway, good luck on your training to get to Eaubonne and I hope to hear from you soon and I look forward to the video that you're working on.

best regards
Todd


Offline foozkillah

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Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2008, 10:23:08 PM »
Hey Todd,

Are there a lot of FABI tables in the Montreal, Quebec area?  How do they compare with Bonzini's and RP's, if you have had experience with these?

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2008, 09:36:57 AM »
Hey foozkillah

I'm actually in Toronto but am pretty sure you won't find many FABI tables in Quebec.  From what I read in various forums and from a few folks that I know in Quebec, it is probably one of the few areas where the table types are quite various.  They have groups that play on Bonzini ( http://www.quebecbabyfoot.com ), Tornado ( www.tornadoquebec.ca ) and Garlando ( http://www.foosbarleague.com ).  However, FABI seems to be an anomaly.  They are all over the place in Toronto - easily the most common table.  You'll also find a few Tornado, Garlando and the odd Roberto Sport here and there.  Unfortunately (for me anyway) there are no Bonzini's or RP's in any public location. 

As far as the playing characteristics of FABI go, they are pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum from Bonzini.  The play fields are slick and polished (no grip at all), the players have block feet (very difficult if not impossible to pin the ball) and the ball is hard and slick, white plastic.  I'm no pro on Bonzini but I can hold my own - but if I play on a FABI table at a bar where the clientelle plays them often I will certainly have my clock cleaned!

The FABI's are quite popular in the Little Italy areas of Toronto and depending on who/where you are playing - the rules vary.  There is a style of play called "al vollo" (not sure of the spelling) or "no-passage" where passing between players before a shot on goal is NOT allowed. The ball must be bounced off a wall prior to striking it and bank shots are quite common.  Therefore, no pull/push kicks, tic tacs, etc.   When you step up to the table, you are either told "no passing or dragging" or asked which style you play.  There is an association ( http://www.ontariotablesoccer.com/ ) that runs small tourneys with both the passing and fastball (no-passing) styles.  I haven't made it out to one yet though as I could anticipate my frustration with the style and table characteristics.  Mario Ariganello - one of Canada's top players - started out on these tables and he has managed to make the transitions quite well to Tornado and Bonzini.  I believe there are some posts on the foosballboard where he describes his experience playing the no-passage style at a tourney in Italy.

As you can possibly tell from this post, I'm not a big fan of the FABI but to each his own.

Todd
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 11:08:07 AM by MrBasso »

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2008, 05:54:42 AM »
Todd,

Thank you for the info...  My aunt and several other cousins live in Toronto, and I got to play on those FABIs a couple times during visits.  They remind me of the outdoor Tornado's and Challengers with glass or highly polished almost metallic tops, very slick balls, and square feet.  We had those old style ones at my uncle's arcade in his bar in Honolulu decades ago, and I found quite a few of them years ago at the drive-in movie arcades in Ohio and western PA.  We usually changed the balls to the yellow paraffin (Dynamo?) balls which allowed much better play.  But the goals were god-awful loud! 

Re: Looking for a Rene Pierre - le Grand, Derby or World Cup In good condition
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2008, 07:20:51 AM »


Alan, I appreciate the invitation. I was amazed when I follow some of the links to see you're a legend!  Pretty amazing your level of play and involvement.
I get down to Wilmington a couple of times a year, so I'd be curious when the tournament is if it coincides.  Congrats on your anniversary tomorrow, er.. in 30 minutes!
I also can clearly see how the design is very "similar" ;) between the RP tables and Bonzini.  Is there bad blood between them still? Am I poking at a hornets nest?

Cheers,

Ryan

Are you kidding me? Alan Cribbs a legend, in his own mind maybe. This guy couldn't play his way out of a three year old wet paper bag. And why someone would want to play on such a goofy table baffles me.......................hehehehehehehehehe.

W A S S U P  COACH. It's been awhile. Are you going to Bonzini Worlds next year? I must admit I do enjoy playing on the Bonzini. Seems I get a little better every time I touch the handles. It was funny, one of the French guys asked me to show one of his buddies how to shoot a pull on the table. After about 10 minutes of intense instruction, I happen to look up and the one on one turned into a impromtu 20 person pull shot instruction session. I had to chuckle to myself, here I am, a Tornado player, showing the French how to shoot a pull shot on a Bonzini. A shot that I was told you couldn't with a normal stroke. However, I beg to differ. I always have a great time at the Bonzini Worlds.

You east coast guys should be lucky I don't have one of these tables,lol.