Topic: Back pins

[bbtuna]

yea, a person can sit on the far side of the big dot and yank an explosive opened handed backpin to the long hole and you may do that from pressure and release...meaning you are winding up, using pressure, and then letting go in which case you free up those muscels I am talking about but with the exception of our backpin shooting friend in MI, there isn't anyone who can do that both ways and they can't do it from at or inside the big dot

be that as it may, I was referring to the wrist version of the shot anyway...if you shoot opened handed you give up a lot of the unique control that the backpin offers...I have heard of backpin shooters and was taught by Jevat Meha originally and was around Petros (sp) in chicago in my TS days but I have never seen one that can do everything I can do off the middle man (I can do the kicks and such but they aren't a regular part of my offense although I will use the pull kick once a match maybe and the pushkick once in a while)

on TS I was unraceable especially on the push side but age and a different table have taken that away

but, a smooth, musceless take off, no pressure or grip, was key then and still remains key today to maximizing the back pin lateral speed

[bbtuna]

I hear the stories of great backpins but I have never seen them...my backpin is by far better than Jevat or Petros the only 2 I have known up close - it isn't saying much probably but I can't tell you how many people have told me they have never seen a better one including some who have seen at least one of the ones I know of that is still active in the game today - I have converted many people into believers that this is a for real shot and have had a pro totally enthralled with the possibilities when they saw how accurate you can go short (straight and brush backs in both directions)

[bbtuna]

I know you all aren't arguing its potential value (which is a change, so thanks) but rather the best way to generate lateral speed and the issues involved with doing so

I only say this other stuff to try and validate in some small way that I know what I am talking about

the lateral speed on a backpin can be very deceptive because it can easily generate so much power into the goal (wrist or open-hand) and no one shoots a back pin from a stand still and very seldom is the backpin shot without at least a short throw in the opposite  direction...with this movement and the power into the goal, it can sometimes appear you are getting good lateral speed and if the rock in the opposite direction is just right you can generate some pretty good lateral speed but that is sooooo much different than from a stand still where you see for real all the lateral speed

[bbtuna]

also, if you go from a SS you will find the short part of the shot much more difficult as well

anyway, if you don't agree and you think you can do it with pressure then have at it and show me wrong but until I see someone who can do that from a SS, closed handed, from the big dot or inside the big dot then I will keep with what I know to be PROVEN in my own experience

bbt

[Old Meister]

Bbtuna, you could basically say the same for roll-overs, lateral speed from a dead start vs rocking. It's what makes the shot effective(rocking) in that you have all the options to work off from. A static start is a nice skill to have I suppose for that little surprise shot once in a while but a rocking start straight backpin pull or backpin push as the alternative to a reversal backpin pull or push seems more effective coupled with a bump kick either direction and the side kicks(as I like to call them), well it seems you can drive a goalie crazy if you're on.

[bbtuna]

big difference between the two...there are a number of rollover shooters who very sucessfully shoot a SS snake, I play with one...it is an approach option but that is NOT true of the backpin

whole different set of muscels engaged pre-shot in these two shots which is my point

no other shot on the table engages the grip muscle before shooting like the backpin does

I am sure some may do better than me, but I challenge you to try and shoot a backpin from a SS...total SS, no rock in opposite direction to start - so, first motiion is to the side you are shooting...do about 50 of these each direction

start on the big dot, use closed hand, shoot 50 one finger pulls and 50 1 finger pushes

when you are done, come back and talk with me about this subject some more

[Old Meister]

Alright, did it, pretty cool! I'm going to use that. That has to be a heart breaker for the goalie. At first it wanted to spray a little but after I tightened up on the move a little it was nice and compact. It reminds me of something I was playing with earlier where I was centering the ball just slightly behind the big dot and hovering over it without touching it, then brushing it for the mini-push or mini-pull. I also did a tight tic tac from there and just for fun a helicopter, picking it up and hooking it in. Kinda tough on Tornado though but fun. I think I insulted one of the better players in our area when I tried it out on him. I did score with it but not enough to win. But this SS pin push really works nice. I wonder how hard a back angle tweener would be, ever try it?

[Rios]

oh no not this again....
haha, I kid I kid...

I got to play against Tuna at MO state and he does shoot the shot very accurately and is able to go both ways well.
The only other person I have seen shoot the shot better was a guy from Wisconsin. I have no idea what his name is but his shot was almost as fast lateral as a snake shot, so it made it very difficult to race. He was able to go dead on both sides and also had a nice straight option. Wish I knew his name...

[foozkillah]

oh no not this again....
haha, I kid I kid...
I got to play against Tuna at MO state and he does shoot the shot very accurately and is able to go both ways well.
The only other person I have seen shoot the shot better was a guy from Wisconsin. I have no idea what his name is but his shot was almost as fast lateral as a snake shot, so it made it very difficult to race. He was able to go dead on both sides and also had a nice straight option. Wish I knew his name... 

Heheheh... Must be something in the milk and cheese from that state!   Sure ain't the water!

[thebodygroove]

there are a number of rollover shooters who very sucessfully shoot a SS snake

 

Being German, that's a very scary thing to read for me. Gruesome associations are invading my mind; do you also have Panzer Pull Shots and NSDAP backpins?

_

[Old Meister]

Hey, I was born and raised in Wisconsin, way up in the frozen hinterlands. You didn't want to lose or it meant you might have to go out in the cold as there were so many quarters on the table that you might not get another chance to play. And who drank water? That was the beer state, Milwaukee Brewers,,,,

[MR.STEVE]

ok every shot a rollover can hit so can a backpinI use one more shot from it a bank it works great on warrior try it you will like it

[Old Meister]

Ah Steve, a man after my own heart. Back pin banks, nasty nasty play,,,,

[foozkillah]

 

I still do backpin banks from all three players on the 3bar.  Tons of fun! expecially the long long crossover bank from either end player to the far or near wall.  I shoot backpins from the middle or 32 player from a SS, just as I do the rollover, although I do the rocking motion first to make sure the ball is rolling right with pin and the pressure.  And the instant palmroll "cut" shot from either end players is another pleaser.

I've seen many a snaker do a hard, a slow, or even a narrow rocking motion, stop with a loud tap and basically wait .5 to 2 seconds before shooting from a standstill.  Just like the backpinners used to do in the TS days.  Except the snake has the advantage of an instant straight after the tap, just as does a Euro heelshot pin.  But the banks from the backpin are just so much more fun.

[thebodygroove]

@foozkillah

Video!