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defensive switches

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defensive switches
« on: February 08, 2009, 10:22:55 AM »
Since we seem to have been having such an animated discussion about the snake-aka-roll over, I think we should get into the real problem which is how to block it reasonably. Being a 70's player I didn't see a moving defense until the late 70's. Up till then we raced every shot. But they had a clinic, at the 1977 Super Singles in Minnesota, Where they demonstrated the moving defense and the light went on for me . So I applied that style to my defense which was a reverse defense. I liked the reverse defense because I didn't give up the deadman on a pull and I could see the middle better. So move ahead 28 years from when it(the game) sadly died and here I am having to learn all over again and loving it! The internet has changed the game, at least for me, because now you can watch how the best play the game. I heard about "the snake" way before I ever saw it being used. It seemed ridiculous that a shot, that was shot off the inside of your wrist, could have any speed or snap. I think I even foolishly made that statement here and was quickly corrected by Bbtuna >:( ;). Then I finally got DSL which allowed me to watch some games, the first one on Youtube after searching "foosball" is Collingon and Papas. Oh how the game had changed,,, I didn't face a rollover until maybe 6 months later and about wore myself out on defense against it but I didn't do too badI still went mostly with the reverse defense but switched to the standard D enough to create confusion. It seems the reverse D still makes it uncomfortable for some forwards. I watched some of the better local players and adopted what I could but I learned more from watching good matches on the net. McMillan has a real nice way about his defense that really piqued my interest. It isn't herky jerky but instead unhurried but hurried just enough and seems to switch right at the right time. And THAT seems to be the trick, switching at the right time. Give and take away, hint and deny, go fast and get lazy then switch. The pattern is no pattern tainted with false patterns. All of this being tempered with the realization that you can only stop a certain percentage of shots. The botom line is that every effective shot that comes down the pike, like the roll over, is another opportunity to learn a new defense and it has made the game grow. It's really amazing how it has grown,,,
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 10:28:14 AM by Old Meister »

Re: defensive switches
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 01:18:48 PM »
Learning from T-Mac is a big plus. I am fortunate enough to live in the Houston area and have known Tracy for 20 years or so. I quit playing in 1990 for 10 years. Played once in a while until last year and started playing at least once a month. We have a monthly no 2 Pro BYP. Tracy and I played in a number of them, and I can't tell you how much I learned, or relearned from him. My game is almost back to where it was before I took 10 years off. But in some areas defensively, Tracy has helped me take my game to a level I did not have before. Learning from the best players is definitely the way to go.

Re: defensive switches
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 02:20:39 PM »
He does have a nice way about his game. He shows that flash is not what makes a great player great,thoughtful skill rules.

Offline snake eyes

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 06:03:10 PM »
T-MAC'S back 2 rod pull shot is the best in the game period...Well Billy's is good too...b u t seriously have you ever seen the rod bow when he launches one from the back???? It's just sick....

Offline bbtuna

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 12:15:26 PM »
t-Mac
Todd
Billy
Tommy A.

best long pulls I have ever seen from goal

I was at MO State and saw Ryan Moore warming up shooting a pull from the back and that was one of the most amazing things I have seen...his lateral speed was not quite as fast as the above but his power was way higher and he could hit every hole you can think of with the same authority

anyone says you can't shoot a long pull on Warrior hasn't watched Ryan

Offline foozkillah

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 12:33:35 PM »
That's a great list.  I would add Chuck Pistole's, Garret Scherkenback's and Michael Cody's for long pulls past the big dot when that was all that was open.

Kinda wears you out, though...  One advantage of the long pull is the defensive 3 has to commit, switching from the near figure to the 32, and hoping that their zone D holds.  That hesitation allows a smooth pull, perhaps not as monstrous as those aforementioned, to get through, like a wide wide, sidearm baseball pitch that handcuffs the batter as it come back well into the strikezone.

Re: defensive switches
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 01:02:32 PM »
I was going to say not to leave Ryan Moore off that list. I played him in the finals of Goalie Wars at the Bart-O last year andin 35 years of foosball I have never  seen anyone hit the ball as hard as he does, bar none. Open-hand, wrist, or rollover, it's just sick. I might have had some semblance of a chance if I could have seen the ball so I would know where to put my man to block it. lol   :o

Re: defensive switches
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 08:08:53 PM »
Watching TM against Spree I just have to give him big kudos. Spree is a monster but Tracy took it and gave it right back, but without the hype. I really respect that.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 11:07:38 PM »
I was going to say not to leave Ryan Moore off that list. I played him in the finals of Goalie Wars at the Bart-O last year andin 35 years of foosball I have never  seen anyone hit the ball as hard as he does, bar none. Open-hand, wrist, or rollover, it's just sick. I might have had some semblance of a chance if I could have seen the ball so I would know where to put my man to block it. lol   :o

Hey ComeBack,

Jeff Maddux and I played Ryan a couple of times, and yes, he has a ripping hit on the ball, but we were more afraid of the accuracy from the back!  If you're talking Heavy Metal hardcore Eve O Destruction hitting, though... ya hasta watch some Philbrook.

I think they might give him his own channel on FoosTV someday. In surroundsound.

Offline bbtuna

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 11:15:34 AM »
yea, TM has power enough, speed, finesse, he shoots every hole angles, squared off, cut back super short to super long and everything in between and he does a good job of setting up shots and then when you least expect it, he will rip a push

On Ryan's power, I wonder if that is his height and long arms?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 11:17:15 AM by bbtuna »

Offline foozkillah

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 12:09:23 PM »
On Ryan's power, I wonder if that is his height and long arms?
Prolly a big part of it.  I've noticed over the years that taller, longer-armed developing players often end up with smoother acceleration and much more deceptive motion, having a steeper angle to the handle and less motion in the joints to move the rod the same distance, leaving less tells.   Less angular motion has to be done at the joints too, to move the rod on the longer pullkicks and pull-bounce-kicks from goal.

Re: defensive switches
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 01:07:20 PM »
The long arms and height probably have something to do with it, but he also has huge hands and is almost as strong in the hands as T-Mac. I've got strong hands, but when yu shake hands with Tracy or Ryan you can feel the strength they have.

Offline bbtuna

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Re: defensive switches
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 01:07:59 PM »
killa,

i knew I could count on you...good logic