Topic: PULL SHOT from the TWO ROD WHY?

[MR.STEVE]

Most defenders shoot a pull 90% to get it cleared why so limeted..?

[Chase Pennell]

Really??? There are a ton of options from the Pull Set...

Can you really say that T-Mac is limited when all he shoots is a pull from the 2? (He may have one of the best most consistent 2 rods period)

How about Todd L? (He has more options but still) and the list goes on and on and on....

The Holes are there! Sprays, Tucks, Sliders...Pull-Kicks, Pull-Push-Kicks, and on the new Tornado you can even do banks from that set...so...not to sound like a jerk because i dont want to give that off at all! But the Pull has more options then any other set shot from the 2 rod (Over the Push).... but you have to remember that if you are fast enough or have the options it is all you need!

DISCLAMER!
-I dont want to get into a argument about why the pull is better then push because it has talked about for a long time...feel free to read other threads there are tons of them out there!~

[marty]

back in the day it was unheard of for a forward to leave his front men down to catch a pass from the back the goalie scored about 25 % off the shots now this was a small town in montana late 70s browntop tables  no we where not pros and the game has changed over the years but there is still some options for the 2 rod pull shot

[foozkillah]

back in the day it was unheard of for a forward to leave his front men down to catch a pass from the back the goalie scored about 25 % off the shots now this was a small town in montana late 70s browntop tables  no we where not pros and the game has changed over the years but there is still some options for the 2 rod pull shot

For the forward to leave his 5bar at horizontal to allow his goalkeeper clearance and a good view of the defending 5bar, is a good standard tactic.  But over the years, especially at any tour or even local organized level above rookie, any goalkeeper that can't "tune" or control his release or shot to either hit the partner's 3bar in a pass, or shoot around it, doesn't really belong above rookie.   Now of course there are tons of variations, too, as for example, with a helpful motion series by the shooting/passing goalkeeper's forward to legally distract the opposing goalkeeper and disrupt the opponents' view of the shot or pass from goal, but that 3bar really never has to be at horizontal or "open".  Not to mention the forward's logically better ability to trap or quickshoot rebounds with the 3bar figures already down.

This isn't to say that a lot of more experienced players up to proM level can't leave their 3bars up, since THEY ALREADY HAVE THE CONTROL AND TIMING to be where they wish to be, but I've always encouraged scrubs and rookies to leave their 3bars down even while their goalkeeper is shooting, so their goalkeeper gets used to shooting around them, and also always SHOW and have the option of passing, which the opponents have to account for, plus the forward has obviously quicker ability to react to rebounding those clears or those shots that come off the opposing goalkeeper.

I believe the majority of goalkeepers, those who pull from the back, are probably using the pull exactly because that shot was one of the earliest most reliable shot options that just about every player, at least in organized foosball, has seen and is most familiar with.  This stresses the importance of a simple reliable series that both the partners can plan with, around, and can be familiar with, in terms of lanes and wall/goalkeeper rebounds.  Now I've seen quite a few push series from the back even in pro and proM events, and they are just as effective.  It just happened that that goalkeeper already had or had developed a good push series and the forward is able to work with it.  Any good reliable, low-risk shot series that doesn't need "touch" and a good warmup if possible will do at the higher levels of play.  And in the tougher matches, that's always been one of the best things to have in your goalkeeper - familiarity and reliability in not just blocking or shooting, but clearing and passing.

This brings up the forward's peace of mind and ability to concentrate and execute.  I sincerely believe that in the tough tough close matches, the goalkeeper's ability to not only have the forward not worry about clearing from their goal area, but also to have a reliable series that can be used to control the tempo from back each possession there, is one of the most desirable abilities to have.  A talented rookie forward can effectively play one or two levels above, or completely crash and burn, simply because of an unthinking goalkeeper.  I have personally seen this hundreds of times, where the forwards are playing very close to each other's abilities in a very hotly contested game, and one or the other goalkeepers squanders valuable opportunities by:

1. Quicksetting shots or quick releasing shots while the forward's not quite ready yet, to trap rebounds AND prevent spikes.
2. Goalkeeper had a reliable pull/push/pushkick/pullkick series they could control, but chose to play hero at 3-all or 4-all, because it was so "cool" and consequently chose to shoot a fancier shot they never practiced.
3. At 3-3 for the penultimate 7th ball, or at meatball, goalkeeper tries to wrongfoot or time a more experienced and usually faster forward, instead of bearing down and executing laterally to the longer (requires more commitment on the forward's figures) release points.  This is where the goalkeeper tries to fake out or cross up the forward to get an easy short or straight-on shot on goal, EVEN THOUGH IT'S QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE OPPOSING FORWARD IS AGITATED AND "PUMPED UP" with adrenalin doubling, even tripling, the reaction speed.

Now I love improvisation and razzle-dazzle as much as the next guy, but if a goalkeeper does the "hero" bonehead thing, it just makes me boil.  Work so hard to get a chance perhaps at the kingseat or money, and they pull out a complicated tic tac or razzle-dazzle shot they practice once a leap year, if at all, or suddenly think they magically became an expert or pro within that one game and try to hoodwink a pumped up forward,  is a NATURAL INNATE STUPIDITY in noobs and scrubs that has always just got my goat.  But I hope they at least learn from it. 

And you shouldn't have to worry about ever drawing these inconsiderate f*cks in a tour event you might blow vacation days, money, and peace of mind on... at least not from my area.  Whenever I see some of these n*mbn*ts develop without ever having any consideration for their partners, I try to encourage them to remain singles players, or else... at least until CSI catches me, or the neighbor's dogs get too curious and digs up my yard.  (checking eBay now for a really cool "Spiderman" walk-in meat cooler, and maybe a backhoe)....

[rios820]

I shoot snakes and Aireals from the back...

[foozkillah]

I shoot snakes and Aireals from the back...

That's cool!  But I'd bet you only do those in exhibition and pickup games, or perhaps when your team is up 4-0 or 4-1, or down that much, in a tournament.  Otherwise someone would have righteously assassinated you long ago, like a highly efficient "double-tap" to the back of your head with a 44 mag while you were taking a leak beside your car in the parking lot.  ORRRR.....  made you only play front, where the Wild N Crazies belong ....

[MR.STEVE]

thanks im still working on that position my forward game is at a dead wall.

[Old Meister]

Ow, ow, OW! 'Killa you got me looking at some of the things I do and now you got me thinking. How many times do I have to reset the way I play the game!!?? I have to admit I try to be the hero when I can from back as I have a forward's mentality. What you say does make sense, too much sense to not reassess what I actually do, but I'm not happy with it. I guess some of the best lessons are the hardest.

[MR.STEVE]

Ilike to shoot a bank to the inside wall off a back pin with the far man (2rod) I pull it then move over it like a brush pass then your at the edge of the goal then crank it to the wall .

[foozkillah]

Ow, ow, OW! 'Killa you got me looking at some of the things I do and now you got me thinking. How many times do I have to reset the way I play the game!!?? I have to admit I try to be the hero when I can from back as I have a forward's mentality. What you say does make sense, too much sense to not reassess what I actually do, but I'm not happy with it. I guess some of the best lessons are the hardest. 

That is exactly the point I was trying to make that noobs and rookies keep on doing.  I try to explain to them that I don't care if they got stuffed or lost the ball to the forward or even scored on themselves with their possession at 3-all or 4-all.  It is the sometimes ridiculous penchant that noobs and rooks have to try a shot or clear they rarely practice at these points, right when the game and match are on the line.  I just keep seeing this same stupidity meatball after meatball after meatball in a loser's or winner's final.  IDIOTIC SIMPLE SHOT SELECTION.  And then they wonder why their forward resented their shot selection so much, since they were just a noob or rookie.  I always watch for when they DO go past this point and play a game that is AT THE VERY LEAST, RESPECTFUL and CONSIDERATE of their partner.  When they realize it's got nothing to do with "blaming it on the rookie" but how they should not forget what their forward is doing, is he/she tired, scrapping like crazy, busting that "hump" for their team!!  Then I know that noob or rookie has gone one level higher, and will be a decent partner in the future.

Some will always be super self-absorbed, and whenever anyone questions why they selected such a dumb shot or pass or quickset, they say, "Hey it's just a game, I'm no pro!".   Others do understand, however, but a lot of times, even here, several of my former rookie trainees HAD TO DEFEND ME to the others, because I am a pretty stern taskmaster.  I've toned down a bit, but I'm also proud that over 20 years, I've helped train several beginner scrubs to get national and major titles.  And I've gotten so many noobs and rookies into the money or won, whenever they drew me.

So I watch out, too, for those who go regularly to our locals and never really get better, because in their own deluded way, it's all for fun, and they never REALIZE that those noobs and rookies DO NOT wish to become like them after 10 years or more of play, but wish to get better and better.  It's only a few, however, because fortunately, many South Florida players have been going on tour for years, and when you shell out vacation days, practice time, real money for flights and rooms and entries, most will realize you can't pantywaist youself into a better player.

I just ask them calculated simple questions like, why did you do that messed-up quickset after the ball's been banging around and both opposing team members are still pumped up at triple-reaction speed or better?  Or, hey, you've been shooting a pull or push or pullkick all game, and it's being cleared or even on goal, WHY NOW SELECT THAT CRAP YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE EVEN CONTROLLING?  Lemme guess, you were bored while your forward was kiiling himself/herself to scrap for you?  Or going through the most absolute stupidity of burning a timeout, and then shooting a fancier "trickier" shot that they haven't practiced or even warmed up, while they're tired, in a tense, close, shot-for-shot final or "money" game.   Some observers will say, "why're you on his/her back, he/she's just a beginner!"  They don't realize that that beginner/noob has played well enough to help the forward into a close game, and the forward or I have to remind them at that point: get rid of these idiotic moments when you try to do something superhuman, coz it's so cool, because YOU ARE PLAYING WELL ENOUGH.

I've seen so many beginners and rookies like this, that have never gotten used to just having that much more of "a sense of urgency" even in pickups and simple locals, and they will become like those who remain happy just to play, and will live and play like that for decades.  Oh yeah, they'll win with a super partner, but they will almost always collapse at stress points, because they never realized it.   As for the ones I've helped, they've prolly cost me a heck of a lot as I played them over the years, because they don't do RETARDED SHOT SELECTION like they did when they drew me, but that's OK.... You can't take it with ya.

[foozkillah]

Ilike to shoot a bank to the inside wall off a back pin with the far man (2rod) I pull it then move over it like a brush pass then your at the edge of the goal then crank it to the wall .

Mr. S,

That is a viable shot, especially if you warm it up (every table wall is often different from one to the other) and can disguise it.  The short off-wall bank, especially against those "I'm the hero" forwards who spend as much time covering what their goalkeeper's already covering in the center, can be deadly, since the best way to stop them is to trap them at the bounce, which only the forward (duhhh) can do.  I and several other players in our locals automatically use that option from a push or pull set from goal, whenever we see an "I'm too Sexy for this Game" player.

I also demonstrate a no look zone D on quickshooting goalkeepers that has sometimes caused other players at Semipro or higher level to be humiliated while I look my goalkeeper in the eye.  Even the more advanced players often forget that the center Zone D forward motion has the primary mission to shut down all the 5 natural quickset lanes to the goal, NOT JUST banks, clears and passes.  But it sure impresses those noobs and rookies who are afraid to believe or commit to the center Zone D.  Those humiliated ones get over it, grudgingly, and start practicing more center Zone D from the front, too.  Even friends sometimes criticize me for "showing off with a no-look" and blocking or trapping their release sometimes 6-8 times in a row, but I have to show the noobs and rookies how committed I am to the D.