Topic: What table should I buy?

[TSR_Brad]

Tick tick tick tick tick...

[bbtuna]

JH,

before you make declarations on how FB and Tor compare you might want to actually play on the table - this makes you looked bad

here is one of the things Dennis (owner) says about the table,

Fireball is a result of collection of merits from many pro tables we have made in the past 10 years. Most table parts have undergone long-time testing in the field and have been proven to last. Before showing the table in Vegas early this month, the table had pretty much been inspected by some of the best players in the world such as Frederic, Tony, Fred Gower, Thierry Muller, Oktay Mann, Johnny Lott, Jamal, among others. Based on their recommendations the table has been improved to the level which got it sanctioned by ITSF last Sept through a secret voting process by ITSF Executive Committee members. The minor changes or improvements this time around based on the feedback of American players mostly relate to making the table even stronger or keeping production consistent. The only changes affecting playability would be the modified shape of the front of the foot for better back-pin set-up / shooting and a ball solution which should lie between the Tornado ball and the Warrior ball without being "slow". We certainly want to release the table with all important aspects of the play stabilized or locked down so as not to cause problems in the future. I appreciate your kind advice and will work to follow it. Dennis

here is what our own Gitablock says,

I think the Fireball is a marriage of the two tables. The Fireball is a Tornado with incredible control and bankability, it is a Warrior that has great speed, durability, and a light rod. And the rods are simply sick on this table and it is also possible to play without wraps on this table, very nice grippy handles.

Trust me on this one, the tornado masses will not have any trouble adjusting to this table. The adjustment time on this table is almost nil. Just ask anyone who has played on it. I played on this table three years ago in Austria and it has made VAST improvements since.


on the 3 man vs 1 man

you don't keep up with all the threads on this stuff or you would know about the 3 man vs 1 man is not a done deal and the owner is considering it but the take on it here in the US is pretty close to 50/50...the owner Denis is very open to a 3 man but it isn't clear "everyone" wants it

the foot has been redesigned specifically for backpins...also, i hav a table set up like th new Tor and it dosn't bank anywhere near as well as the old TS even though it is an improvement over the old Tor....I understand this table will bank better than Warrior which banked better than the improved Tor IMO

4. Foot design for backpin.
The key to designing the foot surfaces for pin shots is to have flat areas in the front and the back of the foot parallel to the playfield when the ball is pinned under the foot. For the front of the foot, this flat area near the toe tip should be designed so that it can help pin the ball easily without stubbing the ball when you want to release it for pass from the 5-rod or making a back-pin shot from the 3-rod. While this area should cover the whole foot width of 23 mm, it is tricky how wide vertically this area should be to balance the need to pin effectively and the right release point. Line or ridges patterns come into play when you want to design for brush, walking the ball, and shooting the ball without lifting it in the air. Horizontal lines will certainly bring the ball up in the air on hard shot or rollover, but they are best in walking the ball laterally. Vertical lines are best in keeping the ball to roll on the surface and will be less likely to stub the ball on release. We had a figure like this design 3 years ago but with dots on the surface and worked well for back-pin. A new foot for Fireball will be ready in a month with a combination of the good features of the above design aspects put in place.

and

3. Back-pin
The back-pin in my post mean the old-school TS style of shot with the man swung back to pin the ball with the tip of the toe front. I had a few back-pin shooters try out shot with different figures. I believe we have a solid idea about how to achieve a good back-pin handling. It will be reflected on the next Fireball figure ready in a month.

[TSR_Brad]

Tick tick tick...

[frosty]

Not easy finding a coin op for reasonable prices...or at least the prices listed in this thread.  Me thinks some entrepreneurial types in my area (Atlanta) may be collecting them, refinishing them, and reselling them for a decent flip...only seeing these for $750+.

Not in a hurry, but may 'settle' for a home type table.  Might be a wiser decision being that the table will be in an unheated/unairconditioned garage.  Dunno how much of an affect that will have on a table.

[John M]

Frosty...do not despair

Honestly you might have to travel a bit to get the best table you can...I traveled 6 hours roundtrip to get my grey marble and 6 hours roundtrip to get my Bonzini.

I suggest searching craigslist in a 2 hour radius of your house and at each city or town just seach for 'foosball' under general search....You will need to be pretty diligent about it because when that Blondie or Grey Marble Coin-Op pops up for the right price there are going to be other people that have been looking for it.

Also just because someone asks 800.00 to 1000.00 does not mean that you cant contact them and ask what their bottom line is....I have negotiated many tables significantly down from their off their offer price.

Good Luck...I will pm you if i see anything that is looking good.

[Mother_Hen]

This information was most helpful, thank you. I was hoping to avoid the expense of a coin-op, but I want one that will last. I've already tracked down a used one for about 900$

[come back trail]

Not easy finding a coin op for reasonable prices...or at least the prices listed in this thread.  Me thinks some entrepreneurial types in my area (Atlanta) may be collecting them, refinishing them, and reselling them for a decent flip...only seeing these for $750+.

Not in a hurry, but may 'settle' for a home type table.  Might be a wiser decision being that the table will be in an unheated/unairconditioned garage.  Dunno how much of an affect that will have on a table.

I keep my gray marble in an unheated, un-airconditioned garage, in humid Louisiana. BUT WHAT I DO HAVE is a dehumidifier which keeps the garage very dry and I have had no problems or signs of problems from moisture or temperature with the table.

[Pat]

Near the top of the thread it is stated that:

Blonde – 1997 - 2001 This was the first color change at Valley ... it matched their ZD-7 pool table - $400-$550
consistent all the same, plays much different than the Brown Marble and has become my least favorite of all the tables

Could someone please elaborate on the differences between the blonde and the other tables and why it would be considered someone's "least favorite".

Am I correct in assuming that the blonde is officially known as the Cyclone II?

[kgstewar]

Others can tell you more about how the "blonde" plays but no, it isn't a Cyclone II. It is a Tornado coin-op.

[xmanicmattx]

Bump

I am curious also as to why someone would consider the Blondie to be their least favorite Tornado. BBTuna stated that on his(her) "What table to buy" thread without any real elaboration aside from it plays differently than the Brown Marble. My apologies, I'm just about to potentially buy my first high end foosball table, the Blondie being said table, and that just kind of bugged me out. I'd appreciate it very much so if someone could elaborate on the reason or potential reasoning behind such an opinion. Thanks if you can.

[bolt115]

I did own one and I think they are splitting hairs....nothing wrong with blonde table, the condition is by far the most important factor

[Denverericj]

Buy it if it isn't good shape and priced right, play it and never look back.  I would bet if you did a blind table test with only the field showing nobody would know the difference.

[xmanicmattx]

I realized that I never responded after getting answered. I did end up getting the blonde and it is a fantastic table. Other than my douchey roomie drunkenly bending a rod its been nothing but fantastic. Actually picked up a Firebal Coin Op since and both are incredible tables. I think I'm favoring the FB and the Ol' Ball and Chain still lovin' up on the Tor.

[annantrow]

Where can I get a T3000 coin op for $1175?

[DenverFoosManiac]

You should start by setting up a Craigslist alert (through smartphone apps and 3rd party sites). To broaden your search I would recommend calling local bars who have Coin-Op Tornado's and asking for the owner's information - bars usually do not own the tables, they rent them. You can sometimes get good deals through these renters. If nothing else, they will have connections to other vendors.

As far as your price point is concerned, you may or may not be able to get one that cheap depending on your area. In Denver, they were $1600 used - minimum. I saw some on Craigslist in the Southeast for $800-900.