Topic: Bought a used gray marble Coin-Op Tornado

[jinhopark]

Ok so after many, many years of being away from the foos scene I just bought a gray marble Coin-Op Tornado from a bar owner who was getting rid of it.  Cosmetically it is in OK shape and the coin mechanism still works at all.  The rods were straight, but had some surface rust and none of the men were broken.  The playing surface appears to be in great shape, and although it's old it did not appear to be abused in any way.  In transporting it and moving it my buddy and I probably caused more damage to it than it's ever seen...chipped off pieces of the gray marble laminate on some of the edges.  The unit was insanely heavy and cumbersome to move 50 miles from the bar location to the back of a pick up truck and down a flights of stairs into my basement.  Anyways, enough of my whining...

The unit did not come with any balls...that was one of the complaints the bar owner had, he said he was sick of replacing those dang balls, or finding them on the floor of his bar each night...so there were no balls included.  Like I said I've been out of the scene for a while and wanted to know, what are the best balls to use?  Also, I heard that Tornado recently "upgraded" or changed the design of the men?  And changed away from the wooden handles to some plastic kind?  Is that true?  PLASTIC handles (which always feel cheap to me)?

Anyways, I want to refurbish my table to it's original glory and make it look and play like new...  I wonder if it's even possible to replace all the gray marble laminate one day...  Thanks for any assistance.

[papafoos]

You can buy the balls on this site.  You might also consider a bearing wrench, extra roll pins (and punch), silicone and a couple of extra men.

As for the plastic handles, don't be afraid of them.  They're not the hard, slick plastic handles you find on a lot of tables.  Now that I've played them, I think I prefer them to the old wooden ones.

If you take care of it, your table will outlast you. 

[bbtuna]

jin,

good job...how much did you pay for the table...what you do to update your table could run a bit of money depending on all you want to do.  You can find basic stuff in this thread
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0

i will give you more specific advice after understanding more about your situation...how much did you pay, do you want the table to be solid and playable just for fun or are you wanting to prep for tournaments.

if you go to tournaments, you will only see the newest table in larger "tour" tournaments - I think there are only 2 locations in the country with the Platinum Tour Edition with all the changes

so, this means, if you want to bring your table up to that standard you will be doing it just because you want the newest of the new but not because it will impact your game in any meaningful way

with that said, if you have the money and want to do it, the changes are cool and really make the Grey Marble which is an already good playing table, really great...I have a friend who made most of the changes and his table plays better than any other one I have been on (ever) and I have played on the full converted 2009 tour edition

he has the new handles and they toally rock, highly recommened, best handle by far that I have used on Tornado or Warrior.

talk to me about rods before ordering new rods to replace your rusted ones...you do NOT want the current 2 rod if you can avoid it (well or the 3 for that matter)...I think there may still be some of the older heat-treated rods still available from Charles McIntosh (rods are 32.5 each)

Changes include:
New Side Strips ($25.50 for a set)
New Men $4.25 each ($110.00 for just enough to change all the men (26) but that doesn't allow for a couple of each color for back up) - i wouldn't change the 3 men on the goalie rods, that will save a few and you could use these for back ups...still $110 but it saves you the "extra" men
New Bearings (just the split bearing part) $3 per set (2 halves) this is for only side of the table, you need another "set" for the other side so it is $6 per rod - if you did the entire table, it is $48 but you really don't need to do the 2 rods and goales, so you can get away with $24
New handles $4.75 ($38 for a new set)
this means if you did all of this, without skimping at all, it would cost you $221.50 and this doesn't include extra men....sooo, depending on your willingness and ability to spend, you may do this in stages

there are also a couple other changes but they are 100% cosmetic
New Score Markers - total Sh#$t and waste of time, I won't even bother pricing them
ITSF Stickers and Tornado Stickers - make the table look for of cool competitive and official but I don't know how they would look on a Grey Marble, they were designed for the "fridge" models (metal wraped)


by the way, you can get new balls at this site...don't worry about all the talk about ball change for now, just get the latest edition, it is a decent ball and if you are just starting back up, none of the changes will make any differenece to you...
order the 5 hr tumbled version http://foosdirect-store.stores.yahoo.net/fts-110-005.html

PS:  you also may want to consider a foosball light, there are a number of real nice ones out there now and they will cost you around $150 plus shipping

[marty]

bbtuna this might be dump qustion  but  will he need new bearings if he changes the side strip , i no the new ones are thiner and there was a problem with some of the later gray marbles not being able to stop wall passes  all of witch i read some where on here the reason i ask is i kind of
half  up graded my gray went with 3 new men on the 3 and 5 new on the 5
and new side stripes  got the new bearings  but did not replace yet but was wondering if the thiner was for the older gray marbles  to

[jinhopark]

Wow this must be the only foos board that people respond to on a regular basis!  What an awesome resource!

I bought the table for $650 cash, which I feel I slightly over paid for but no one else in my area has sold a coin-op version for a long while...so he sort of had me over a barrel.  To give you some more history, I am the original owner of a MINT condition HM 2000 that I bought new back in 1994.  Actually my buddy and I each bought (and still own) the grey marble version...at the time I think it was the only home version table that Tornado sold that supposedly played just like the coin-op version or something...but what was annoying about it was that you had to retrieve the ball from the goal, and if you had another ball in there and scored they would occassionally fly out.

Anyways, fast forward 13 years later and I stumble into a local pool hall and see a crowded Tornado table...with the likes of Terry Moore and other amazing local foos players.  Didn't even know Chicago had a foos scene worth mentioning...now 2 years later I stumble upon this Tornado coin-op and wish to refurbish it.  I'd be willing to spend $300 or so to get it back to mint condition.  In all honesty I can probably just swap all the parts off of my mint HM 2000 and put it on my brand old coin-op, right?  Unless the rod and bearing designs have changed?

If they have changed the design of the men I'd like to change to the new style, and the new synthetic handles sound interesting...  Without a doubt I'll buy the new balls, not sure what the 5 hour tumble thing is all about but I guess I'll be buying those.

I have a few other questions...  What is the best lube to use for the hinges and the coin-op mechanism?  Also, how do you put the coin-op to "free-play"?  What is a good way to get all the goo residue off the metal parts of the back goal area?  Also a nice stain from what appears to be a spilled beer into one of goals that got on the mdf...probably typical of a any bar foosball table.

[bbtuna]

okay, both of you, this will take a while and will have to wait until tomorrow morning but I will respond

[bbtuna]

Marty,
the new bearings are for any table going back to the Brwn Mrbl - oh, and there is no such things as an "old" Gry Mrbl coin op...the oldest can only be 6 years old and for a Tornado, that is like a 6 year old kid because I think one taken decent care of would last at least a normal humans life time

BEARINGS:   the side strips have no "bearing" (excuse the pun) on the bearings...the change in bearings is that the outside face of the bearing has been made thinner...that is the only change...the reason for this is that there was a mold change on the bumpers and the bumpers started being made just a fraction wider than previously so that a very tight wall pass could pass between the man and the wall even if the rod was tight on the wall

the choice was remake the bumper slightly thinner or make the outside of the face of the split bearing slightly thinner...the side strip had and has, old or new, no connection and no impact either way to this issue

SIDE STRIP:   the white side strip that has been on the table for 30 years was put on there so that the ball would not lay up on the edge if it rolled to it slowly or stopped right at the wall...the white strip created a little "ramp" for the ball to roll up and back down...

this works perfectly as designed however, another unintended consequence is that when hitting the ball from the 2 bar when the ball hits that strip the strip really is a ramp and the ball jumps...this creats two issues...more balls off the table and the more important of the two, IMHO, is that it makes hitting bank shots much more difficult which is already hard on this table because of hollow very flexible rods and the front hitting edge of the man which is a terrible design for hitting consistant angles (the biggest issue is that the front outside leading edge of the man's foot is curved...there is more, they attempted to address this with the new man design but made very little progress...some progress, but they didn't completely fix the issue and now they won't any time soon since they committed to a brand new mold for their man (the last mold was near 20 years old I think))

[bbtuna]

jin,

okay, let me take this a little at a time

I bought the table for $650 cash, which I feel I slightly over paid for but no one else in my area has sold a coin-op version for a long while...so he sort of had me over a barrel.

 
$650 is a very good price for a used Grey Marble...I think they are worth $700-$750 depending on condition

you have mentioned a bunch of things and makes me wonder what kind of condition your table is really in...if it has rusted rods, that is a bad sign...Grey Marbles made from 2003-2007 so even the oldest is not old for a Tornado...you can tell the 2003 units they were the 30th Anniversary model and on the table surface, below the logo, it says 'Product of Valley'...no table made after this has this phrase

back to the condition...you need to take a bunch of close up digital pictures of all around the playing field, all the bearings and rods and then I can help you better determine what to do

if it has rusty rods after just a couple of years, the table has been near a ton of moisture...most of the Gry Mrbls had the heat-treated rods, again, even harder to make rust...so, lets take a good look before you start buying tons of stuff

To give you some more history, I am the original owner of a MINT condition HM 2000 that I bought new back in 1994.  Actually my buddy and I each bought (and still own) the grey marble version...at the time I think it was the only home version table that Tornado sold that supposedly played just like the coin-op version or something...but what was annoying about it was that you had to retrieve the ball from the goal, and if you had another ball in there and scored they would occassionally fly out.

I didn't know Tornado made a grey version in 1994...if you have to retreive balls from the ends, it doesn't play like a coin op....

Anyways, fast forward 13 years later and I stumble into a local pool hall and see a crowded Tornado table...with the likes of Terry Moore and other amazing local foos players.  Didn't even know Chicago had a foos scene worth mentioning...now 2 years later I stumble upon this Tornado coin-op and wish to refurbish it.

 
cool story, so you are in Chicago land area?  I grew up in the NW suburbs of Chicago - Schaumburg/Hoffman

I'd be willing to spend $300 or so to get it back to mint condition.  In all honesty I can probably just swap all the parts off of my mint HM 2000 and put it on my brand old coin-op, right?  Unless the rod and bearing designs have changed?

no on the swaping...don't know what will or won't match but if you are willing to spend money, no need to take 15 year old parts, even if they are "mint" to fix a 4 year old table

If they have changed the design of the men I'd like to change to the new style, and the new synthetic handles sound interesting...  Without a doubt I'll buy the new balls, not sure what the 5 hour tumble thing is all about but I guess I'll be buying those.

talk to someone before you buy the handles to make sure you get the newest ones, there have been quite a few...talk to Jim Waterman who runs this board and the foosball.com retail site or Charles McIntosh (tornadofoosball.com) either can help you...I always try and give Jim my business first since he his helping us talk even now with this board...I mean, you wouldn't be asking and I wouldn't be helping if it wasn't for him

5 hour tumble means how long they put the balls in a tumbler to get the roughed up surface...for this ball, it needs this long to get the right nap that will stay for any length of time

the men - well, this is the most expensive part outside of new rods at 32.5 a rod...the men are nice to have but for sure not need to have...rods are a must have...hopefully you don't have a lot of those to replace because a whole set would be $260 which wouldn't leave you much for anything else

I have a few other questions...  What is the best lube to use for the hinges and the coin-op mechanism?

 
I am not certain, 5 in 1 would be fine...others may jump in and give you another idea but I have know people to use a little silicone but I wouldn't

Also, how do you put the coin-op to "free-play"?

 
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2708.0

What is a good way to get all the goo residue off the metal parts of the back goal area?  Also a nice stain from what appears to be a spilled beer into one of goals that got on the mdf...probably typical of a any bar foosball table.

do you mean the curved metal piece at the back of the goal?  Hot water and soap, rubbing alchol, 401...just make sure you dry off any metal surfaces real good to avoid rusting 

your table may not need new bearings unless you have to replace a bunch of bumpers...you may want to try and see if the ball fits behind the men...then if you find they do and you want to replace the split bearings, only plan to replace the 3 and 5 man rods

see my notes from the posts on http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0
on cleaning your new used table...it will take some work up front but once you have it all done, it requires very little maintenance each year...I put in less than 2 hours a year cleaning and replacing parts

[jinhopark]

Yeah I live straight south of the Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates area...more specifically in the Naperville/Bolingbrook area, been here since early 1996 but grew up in the Detroit area my whole life.  I think Terry Moore must live in the Chicagoland area as well...not sure specifically where, but there are quite a few foos players that play at Q's in Darien, IL (which is exactly on my way home from work).

How or where can I post pictures up of my Tornado tables?

I have the 1994 edition of the HM 2000, which is the the bottom grey one, like the one pictured here:

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=136003&ppid=1122&image=198697937&images=198697893,198697937&formats=0,0&format=0

[bbtuna]

doesn't cost anything to start a picture account on a number of sites I use Yahoo's Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/

after you post your pictures there...you can just provide a link for us to go to or if you want to show the pictures on the board you go to your pictures, right click on one (not opened) and select Properties, then copy the http address - it will look like this
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3881746455_36ce2ddf66_m.jpg

this will also show up as a link, as you can see while you read this, and a person can link to the picture that way

any, if you want to show the picture here, then keep reading

you then highlight it and select the picture Icon above...it is the Icon just below the B for Bold - "Insert Image"



anyway, just an aside, but that is a picture of the new bearing on a 30th Anniversary Grey Marble my friend owns...i will give you some more pictures including the handles in another post

[bbtuna]

great table light...$150


stupid new plastic markers



stickers i was telling you about


next 4 are of the new handle showing compared to the last two versions...it is the yellow one








new foot is on the left...hard to see the differences, they are subtle...like i said, you might want to think about spending that money








30th Anniversary Tbl with "Product of Valley" under the logo

[snake eyes]

Hey Charles who's Tour Edition is that? Joe Rhoades? Did he win it or?

[bbtuna]

no...the metal wrap pictures with the light, stickers, and score markers are from the tables at Worlds this year

all the other ones are from Chris Traynor's 30th Anniversary Grey Marble which he did some of the upgrades on...men, handles, and bearings

[jinhopark]

I'll take pictures of my table this weekend...  I must have the 30th Anniversary 2003 edition as mine clearly says:  "Product of Valley" under the logo.

bbtuna you are a WEALTH of information...  Once I get my pictures up you guys will have to help me with getting my shopping list of items to buy.

[Old Meister]

Nice job Bb! You da man!