Topic: Some help needed about foosball history ...

[klaschatx]

Best wishes and a happy New Year to you all!

I’m the german foos-fanatic from website http://www.kickerbau.org. It’s a non-commercial website including some information about foosball tables and how to build them. Some month ago "thebodygroove" invented you to visit that page for taking a look on a comparison of Tornado-figure and Fireball-figur, if you remember.

Now I’m searching for some information about football table history, because I want to write some articles about it. Indeed I found many fascinating information on the web, but some questions are not answered yet. So I hope you all may help me.

Some Tornado-Questions:

I found the first Tornado-table, constructed 1970 by Robert Furr and Robert Hayes. This table was built with corner-ramps, a glass playing surface and a 1-figure-goalie-rod. And even the figures are not the figures we know today as Tornado-figures.

1) The modern Tornado-figure of our days has been styled in 1989 (Inventor: McCloud). Is this correct?

2) Can you tell me the year of appearance of the “new” Tornado-style with 3-man-goalie-rod, flat corners and sidestrip?

Tournament Soccer:

I worry about finding absolutely no real information about the Tournament-Soccer-tables on the web. The only thing I found is the US-patent of Peppard’s Soccer-figure. The old Tournament-Soccer-tables seem to be built between 1973 and 1981. And I heard about a brown-top and a blue-top table.

3) Do you got any own photos or pictures of old Tournament-Tables? Please let me know and send a copy to klaschatx@kickerbau.org. If you got some old paper-pictures - please don’t hesitate and just photograph them with your Digital-Cameras. Quality will be pretty good enough for a website.

4) The head of the patented Tournament-Soccer-Figure looks like an old Deutscher-Meister-figure. But today Tournament-Soccer-Figures wear a cap. When did it change? Or is the old original Tournament-Soccer-figure the figure without cap until the end of Tournament-Soccer-challenges in 1981?

Dynamo-tables?
In the seventies there were Tornado-tables and Dynamo-tables.

5) What about the Dynamo-tables? I yet did not find any information. Are there some pictures out there? Please let me know.

b) Today Tornado is a label of Dynamo Valley. When did the concerns merge?

By the way: If you got some own photos of Warrior tables, the ITSF-Tornado with 1-figure-goalie-rod or pictures of Bonzinis or even other old-style- or recent tables - let me know too and please send your pictures to klaschatx@kickerbau.org. I really miss some information about these tables on http://www.kickerbau.org. So your help is welcome. Even all pictures of old “Foosball match” tables, old Rene-Pierres or the old “Deutscher-Meister”-tables (Duescher Meister, German Master, Luxus etc.) are welcome.

Thank you very much for reading this long text and any help you may give. The article-series about foosball table history will be fascinating - and you can help to make it much better with your information and your pictures. Maybe some day we can translate that history into English. Till that day google-translation may help.

Greetings from Germany
klaschatx

[Tyler Foos]

Klaschatx,

Check you email.

Tyler

[bstone]

Some places to look for info...

History of American Foosball
http://www.foosmovie.com/foosball_movie_documentary_history_table_soccer.htm

Table Soccer Almanac
http://www.worldtablesocceralmanac.com/Reviews.html

You should also look for help at "the" foosball board, if you already haven't. Many players with many years of experience/history there.
http://www.foosballboard.net

[wildcard]

I remember playing on that first 1970 Tornado table with the glass top and single goalie man (This would have been about 1977). The handles were wood as I recall. I was in our local game room, but was in poor shape and the owner had just gotten new TS tables. What I thought was neat though was a 2bar shot down that glass surface would sound like a "sizzle" before it plunked into the goal. Ahhh, memories.

[mudfarmer]

here's some dynamo pics i recently noticed while looking around
http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNAMO-FOOSBALL-TABLE-SOCCER-BALL-COIN-OPERATED-GAME_W0QQitemZ350300429238QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518f885bb6
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/tag/1502724825.html
rock on

[klaschatx]

Thanks for all your help!

TylerFoos gave me lot of information about Tournament-Soccer and great pictures of that tables. So here my questions are almost answered.

@mudfarmer
Thanks for hinting to the ebay-auction with a dynamo table. I got the right to use that pictures!

@wildcard
That sizzle-sound of a fast shot is a great feature of these old Tornados ;-) Furr and Hayes write about it in their patent-text. It's a implication of the pebbled glas surface of the playing-field. The abrasion of the ball on the surface is minimized by those pebbles - and the sizzling sound of the shot shall be "psychological pleasing". At least they gave you good memories :-)

@bstone
Thanks for your tips. Most of my questions arised while reading that foosmovie.com-site ;-)
Maybe I can get some information out of table scoccer almanac. I'm in e-mail-contact with a German who owns it.
And if you all can't help any more, I will go to foosballbaord.net and place my questions there once again!

Best wishes from Germany
klaschatx

[bstone]

Thanks for all your help!

TylerFoos gave me lot of information about Tournament-Soccer and great pictures of that tables. So here my questions are almost answered.

@mudfarmer
Thanks for hinting to the ebay-auction with a dynamo table. I got the right to use that pictures!

@wildcard
That sizzle-sound of a fast shot is a great feature of these old Tornados ;-) Furr and Hayes write about it in their patent-text. It's a implication of the pebbled glas surface of the playing-field. The abrasion of the ball on the surface is minimized by those pebbles - and the sizzling sound of the shot shall be "psychological pleasing". At least they gave you good memories :-)

@bstone
Thanks for your tips. Most of my questions arised while reading that foosmovie.com-site ;-)
Maybe I can get some information out of table scoccer almanac. I'm in e-mail-contact with a German who owns it.
And if you all can't help any more, I will go to foosballbaord.net and place my questions there once again!

Best wishes from Germany
klaschatx

VIEL GLUECK!
(spreche ich ein bisschen Deutsch)

[klaschatx]

Danke schoen 

I speak German much better than English, I'm afraid. Since I left school 25 years ago, I never had to build my own sentences in that speak. It's really hard work for me 

Regards
klaschatx

[EDGEER]

1) The modern Tornado-figure of our days has been styled in 1989 (Inventor: McCloud). Is this correct?

Sorta.  There have been 5 generations of Tornado styled men
1st generation was pre 1977, was not countered balanced.
2nd generation was introduced 1977 was countered balanced
3rd generation was introduced in 1982
4th generation was introduced in late 1980's
5th generation was introduced 2008

2) Can you tell me the year of appearance of the “new” Tornado-style with 3-man-goalie-rod, flat corners and sidestrip?

I designed the 3-man goalie Tornado for Ed McCloud in 1980, it was first introduced in production in 1981 or 1982.

[papafoos]

Ed, did you forget about the first Tornado man, which was made of wood?  Bob Furr still has a couple that I've tried to get from him.

[EDGEER]

I never saw one of those.  I always thought they were prototypes.  I did see the wood prototype of the 3rd generation men Ed McCloud made.  Some told me that a few of them are embedded in a bar top somewhere up north?

[klaschatx]

1) The modern Tornado-figure of our days has been styled in 1989 (Inventor: McCloud). Is this correct?

Sorta.  There have been 5 generations of Tornado styled men
1st generation was pre 1977, was not countered balanced.
2nd generation was introduced 1977 was countered balanced
3rd generation was introduced in 1982
4th generation was introduced in late 1980's
5th generation was introduced 2008

2) Can you tell me the year of appearance of the “new” Tornado-style with 3-man-goalie-rod, flat corners and sidestrip?

I designed the 3-man goalie Tornado for Ed McCloud in 1980, it was first introduced in production in 1981 or 1982.

Ah - great. Some information directly from the source :-)

One more question to the figure. I know of two versions.
a) First one is the version from the first Tornado-table as patented 1973.
b) This figure was lightly modified a few years later with a little additional edge at the end of the foot.
c) Second figure is our modern Tornado-figure.

When I try to put a year to a)-c) with your information:

a) pre 77 (1st generation, patented 1973 with the whole table)
b) 77 (2d generation, patented 1977)
c) 89 (4th generation, McCloud patented 1997, filed 1989)

What is the new with the 3d generation 1982?

Is it correct, that your first 3-man-goalie-rod-Tornado initially was mounted with the "old-style"-figure of 1977?

Allow me one more question: Why did you style that 3-man-goalie rod in 1981/1982? What were the reasons? (A few days ago I read, that a table with a flat playing field is cheaper to produce. Is that the whole reason?)

And please: If you have some pictures of a early 1981-Tornado with 3-man-goalie-rod and old figures - please send it to klaschatx@kickerbau.org. I'd receive it with cheers for my history-articles! I've also never seen the new Tornado-figure from 2008 or a ITSF-Tornado with 1-man-goalie. Shops in Germany only sell the 1990 figure till now. So if you got any pictures ...

However - thanks a lot for your information!
Regards
klaschatx

[EDGEER]

What is the new with the 3d generation 1982?

The style of the paddle was changed close to the design of the 89' model.

Allow me one more question: Why did you style that 3-man-goalie rod in 1981/1982? What were the reasons? (A few days ago I read, that a table with a flat playing field is cheaper to produce. Is that the whole reason?)

Built the table with 3-men on the goalie rod because I had no way to install the ramps with the tools I had available.  However, it was successful because it cost less to produce, was more durable, it increased the revenue per hour to the operator, and most importantly it makes the game more fun and easier to learn for the beginner player.

Sorry I do not have any pictures.

[klaschatx]

Ok. Thanks a lot for that helpful information!

Regards
klaschatx

[bbtuna]

no pictures of the new 1 man goalie yet but people will be posting pictures from Worlds multi-table Championship and World Cup and i am certain you can find on there

on the new man, you may have seen it without knowing it, the changes are very subtle at first glance

these pictures aren't great, i will be getting the new men this Friday and i will take some better photos

the change is that the # (cross-hatch) on the front foot of the man now goes about 2/3 of the way up the front where the old only went a little more than 1/3 and the harder thing to see is that they changed the edge of the man to try and improve banking/angles - i will take pictures for you to see this for sure





this a video which shows the one man goal

http://www.youtube.com/user/insidefoos#p/u/6/BSCKOMfmZsg

here is a stationary pic of 1 man goalie from Ice's pics