Topic: USTSA Points

[DRadack]

Because it always was until im not sure when. Certainly when elo started for the first 2 years. The Women have traditional points which should accurately represent there skill level, so its like playing any other event which is more data. Which is what Elo needs to function. Its not like before when women had 3000 points when they played at an 1800 level.

[KCTrayn]

I really have to agree with David on this one Ed. I've been entering in our local tournament data for 2 1/2 years into netfoos and understand how elo works. The more data you have, the better. I wouldn't go as far as saying that even DYP's should be included, but I really think OPEN MIXED should be included because the players pick their partners and WANT to win. ELO takes their combined points and calcualtes a probability of that team beating another team. Well, you know how it works. With the lack of tornado tournament data, including mixed seems like no brainer.

[KCTrayn]

Joe Rhodes - He took a brief hiatus from foosball (without much loss in skill - he is just talented), looses to a low ranked pro or a semi in Open last year and he drops to Pro? There is simply not enough data to properly rate Joe. If there were regionals and state tournaments like Tornado used to have and Joe attended just a couple of these last year, he would still be a PM.

[DRadack]

As i posted on TFB... Joe's results were:

HOF
Open Singles 17th lost to Dunn and Rosa
Open Doubles 13th lost to Moore/Moore and Bates/Cavalier
Open Mixed 9th lost to Dunn/Murray and Rosa/Pappas

Texas State
Open Singles 5th
Open Doubles 17th
Open Mixed 3rd

Worlds
Open Singles 25th
Open Doubles 33rd
Open Mixed 7th

He had a bad worlds. Other two tournaments, were fine. I guarantee he'd be a pro master still if Mixed counted, but there seems to have been some arbitrary decision to remove that. Though a lot of the Elo data we are basing these other transactions off included that. (I cant see Joe's point log any more, but i wonder if some of those 200 points he lost to get close to 2400 came from mixed...)

[DRadack]

Also, its obvious Elo was not what dictated his new points, he's 2200 and 2200. Theres no way he dropped that far in singles and doubles. He was consciously reset to this point. Again, who decided this and why? The whole, the system works if he deserves he'll go back up is find in theory but now he has to climb 200 points, as opposed to what Elo may have dictated.

[EDGEER]

Also, its obvious Elo was not what dictated his new points, he's 2200 and 2200.

I will check into this I knew he dropped in rank but not like that.  Kent was reset to 2200 because he hasn't played since 2003. Joe was not suppose to be.

[Daniel]

What about a player that was on the list as a semi but now is off the list do they start back at Amateur?

[EDGEER]

We will have to deal with that when they buy their package.  Until they enter one of our events it doesn't really matter, does it?

[bbtuna]

ed that is a terrible answer, sort of condesending and rude

you haven't answered Dave's question on moving down ranks

Because it was stated clearly before, that someone would not drop rankings if they crossed the threshold. To prevent things like this.

and follow up

What happens when a player loses enough points to move down a rank? Let me state that our primary objective is to maintain an
accurate rating system. How that rating system affects the ranking system can be done in many different ways. The current plan
is laid out so that you must fall below a certain threshold and remain there for a period of time before USTSA will consider lowering
your ranking. For example, if you gain enough points to hit 1800 you will become a pro, but you will need to fall below 1600 points
and remain there for an extended period of time before USTSA will consider adjusting your ranking.

[EDGEER]

Guys that is the way it's done now. I don't understand your point your trying to make.  The USTSA ranks everyone in January and you stay there all year.  If a player goes up in rank mid year they still get to play in the old one until next year.  Then come next January the cycle starts all over again.  We just produce the points, how they are used is up to an individual promoter.  It is merely a recommendation of a players skill relative to all the other players. 

If someone has been overlooked liked the Amateur Doubles winners at nationals that can be fixed and taken into account.  With over 1000 results to review, it is possible we made a mistake or two.  Just be kind enough to send me the information and I will look into it and get back with you. 

[threadkiller]

ED....

Can you share which tournaments in 2009 were used in the point calculations please? 

[DRadack]

And what events as well.

[EDGEER]

I will have to get back with you this evening.

[EDGEER]

2008 Maryland States
2009 NC State
2009 National Doubles Championships
2009 Midwest States Foosball Championship
2009 Hall of Fame Classic
2009 Texas State Championships
2009 World Championships
2009 Houston City Championships
2009 National Singles Championships
2009 Maryland States
2009 Bart-O Celebration
2009 NC State

We did not include DYP's, Goalie War, Forward shoot-out, 3500, Mixed, Pro-Amatuer.

[bbtuna]

considering the small size of the data available (compared with what ELO likes) why not include 3500, Mixed, Pro-Amatuer...just don't give them equal weight, count them as 40% of main events or something like that