Topic: Can someone identify this table...

[jagiar]

Can someone please identify this table and tell me if it is worth purchasing.  What I mean by "worth purchasing" is, if it is in good shape will it allow me to practice to tournament level or will I be disappointed with the quality in time (i.e. bent rods, worn bearings/bushings, broekn bumpers, etc.).  Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200433939692&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D200433939692%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[Patowns]

Looks just like my Tornado Cyclone II on the back side. Just the way my men where setup before I had them switch ends. Ask the seller to get a picture of the other side it should have the name plate on it.

[mudfarmer]

it's a tornado and it doesn't have end ball returns and it has leg levelers so it's probably a cyclone which would be a good choice IMHO. not sure what they play on in your tourneys

[bbtuna]

cyclone II and you can learn the game on that level table...zeek who is on this board once in a while, got to be a really good player on a Cyclone and only a year ago got his first big boy table

in the US, I would encourage you to go coin op but since this is in London, I would give this table a much more serious look since you probably rarely or never see Tornado coin ops for sale

if the table really is mint then $200 is a really good price and I would be willing to go up to $450 probably - this is assuming you don't have a good used coin op market like we do in the US...if that was the case, I would NOT pay that kind of money for this table because i could get a coin op for that much

[jagiar]

thanks bbtuna (and the rest).  You're right, this is a cyclone II with ball return (I had the seller send me more pictures).  Here's the thing - I am an avid player, but on Garlando World Champion (solid table and gives a great game by the way).  I live in Europe and I've only ever played on Tornados twice - when I visited Canada last.  Tornados are VERY difficult to find in western Europe (especially used ones).  So when I saw this one I thought it may be worth it.  It's going for 200 pounds sterling (about US$315).  Now, that may not be a great price for the same table in the US given the availablity of used Grey and Brown marbles, but given the scarcity of Tornados here I'm thinking it's not too bad.  But the more important factor is that I do not end up being disappointed with it down the road. If that is the case, I'd rather bide my time and hope (against hope) that a decent coin-op shows up.

Given the above, what do you guys think?  Thanks

[jinhopark]

Tornados are VERY difficult to find in western Europe (especially used ones).

Given that knowledge I feel like buying up all the reasonably priced Tornado coin-ops in the US and putting them in a shipping container and selling them for market value over there.  BTW, what do new Tornado's go for in Europe?

[bbtuna]

are you a tournament player with a young game trying to get better?
are you going to continue to play mainly on Garlando?
do you already own a Garlando?
why do you want the Tornado, to learn to play on multi tabls or because you think it is sort of in investment or what?
how often, outside of your own table, do you think you will be playing on a Tornado vs Garlando or other table?

[jagiar]

jihnopark, Tornados (which are mainly found in the UK) go for about the same price (and upwards of about 20%) as they do in the US, but the currency is GBP vs $US.  Since the conversion rate is about 1.37 you'll get a mark up of about 50% or so.  The problem is shipping them.  Believe me, given the level of enthusiasm for the game here (as I'm sure you all know), if shipping wasn't the problem, you'd have Tornados readily available.  In fact it's really only the big European ITSF federations/associations that play on (or more specifically, have touramnents on) anything other than European tables and I think shipping costs are the main reason.  If you have any ideas on how to get around it PLEEEASE let me know.  We can partner up.

bbtuna, I am the president of the Malta Table Soccer Association, the Malta affiliate of the ITSF.  We are a young and small club (with a young game) and currently we play on Garlando World Champion tables.  I own one and use it every day.  We do plan on entering tournaments some time soon so we'd like to get some practice on other tables.  But as this is a small island and our club is still fledgling, and without sponsors so far, we don't want (can't afford) to spend lots of money on new Tornados.  But we'd till like to get some exposure to them. 

As you asked, our game is still young but many of our players practice regularly.  I practice on my Garlando about 1- 1 1/2 hours daily (religiously).  Unfortunately, at this stage in my life, that's all I can afford right now.  If we get the Tornado, I will definitley be able to play on it at least a couple times a week (as it probably won't be located in my home like the Garlando is).

I don't really consider the purchase an investment beyond, of course, being able to everntually recoup the cost of the table through play (I know it's not a coin-op but a small nightly playing fee will easily bypass that obstacle).  We're looking mainly for good exposure to what Tornado is all about and to make sure that the table doesn't fall apart after a few months (or years? -  is that asking too much?) of hard play. 

Your opinions on the table given the above are appreciated.

[papafoos]

Try contacting Dave Oates in the UK.  He's a distributor there and if he can't help, maybe he will be able to guide you to someone who can.

www.foos4fun.co.uk 

[bbtuna]

under the circumstances, the Cyclone will suit your needs...better if you could snag a coin op but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush if you know what i mean

the Cyclone has all the playing features the coin op has and most of its build.  The build sturdiness is the biggest difference.  The CO (Coin Op) weighs 150 pounds more than the Cyc so obviously they don't build them exactly the same

they play 95% the same but there is a difference between how they play...the difference doesn't make a big functional difference but you can definately feel the difference moving from one to the other

however, these differences won't keep you from learning how to play on Tornado...like I said, Zeek Cervantes, who won Semi-Pro Worlds Singles in 08, learned on a Cyclone...here is a video of him practicing 5 bar  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oz5RtMwzqs

a CO will last forever the cyclone won't but with care it should take care of you all for years and you can upgrade men, side-strips, bearings, and handles and play with the new ball so you will be ready for the latest tournament CO

[Patowns]

I know I'll get beat up for this one......but What is the difference between a Cyclone II, not a Cyclone, and a Coin Op model? My Cyclone II has the same thicker wall rods, bearings, men, playing surface, and side wall thickness. I can't image that there is anything different other than the obvious split cabinet, internals, and the outside cosmetics. According to the spec's they are the same. Comparing and older Coin Op that is. But even today a Coin Op isn't any different in the specs to an Elite or T3000 table, just internals, cosmetics, and the ITSF stamp. Again don't beat me up to much, I have not seen these table in person, but have worked in manufacturing of auto parts, and all manufacturing is the same, in general. One assembly line, one box goes to Ford or Chevy the other to your local auto part store same parts different labels. Different prices.

[EDGEER]

Mostly the weight and the bearing. The table pictured has the 3 piece bearings that are preferred.  Did you when the Table?

[jagiar]

I decided to wait it out and see if I could score a coin-op - "patience is a virtue"...as they say.  Luck would have it (that and the fact that I was bloody hell vigilent), I'm in talks to getting a coin-op T-2000, Grey (about 2-3 years old).  He wants 500 STG.  He says its in mint shape.  Given it's in Europe, is it worth it?

[bbtuna]

HELLL YEA!!! Buy NOW and buy FAST. $500 would be a great price for a mint Grey coin op...grab that ASAP and don't dicker....you will love the table...the Grey is a real nice table - GREAT JOB let us know the whole story and keep us informed after you get it home and so forth...fandamtastic!

[jagiar]

Actually, that's 500 British pounds sterling, so about US$785.  I figure a premium for vicinity is justifiable.  But thanks for the info guys (especially bbtuna).  You've been lot's of help.  When (and if) it gets done, I'll update.