Topic: backpinners rejoice

[Old Meister]

What I envision on the multi-play table and rods is custom made men configured to the player. How great would it be to play with the weapons that you want to play with? I would love to tinker with different configurations that would allow me to play the game I want to play. This is the direction our game might take in the end and I truly hope it does.

[Anderson]

Bingo!!! Winner!! Dead on!

That would be my ultimate dream table, but it just won't work for most gaming uses, coin ops and the like. But at a professional level, a table like that would be the key. The problem though would be agreeing on a ball - I say who ever serves chooses - and the surface might be an issue.

Should we move this discussion to an appropriately titled thread? I didn't mean to take over a backpinner thread. We might get more players thoughts if we do.

[Anderson]

Other business can emerge to design different style men to fit on different rods. It would open up a whole new market.

You could even tailor your men to position. I would have a different design on each 3 man, but the same passing design on each 5.

[gitablok]

Just in case you haven't seen the foot yet, here you are. And now you see why  it back pins so well. I might get some better detailed pics this weekend.

And the guy who wanted to purchase a table, if you can see if you can get the ITSF model.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ezemoat/FireballFoot?authkey=Gv1sRgCImCgNj1m9-49gE&pli=1&gsessionid=T67JtUGscPb-0NY2QmXjtw#5493957910799295522

[Old Meister]

Myself, I think I would design a man who's foot could be interchangeable and adjustable in height by using a set pin system. Somehow I think all these hard angles we see on the feet would change to a more rounded design.

[gitablok]

round edges equals no chip passes and very hard to hit bank shots.

[Old Meister]

Ice, that wasn't true with TS men. It would be fun to experiment. After a while I imagine a standard type or shape would emerge and then some table manufacturers would copy it.

[Anderson]

To tell you the truth I'm not sure either way. Bonzini men don't have sharp edges and I bank quite well on that table. I can't bank at all on Tornado, but had no problem on other German style tables.

[bbtuna]

TS men feet were not rounded on the edges and I think that is true of Bonzini too...the edge needs to be a straight line but maybe not a totally "sharp" edge...the problem with Tornado is that the edge is not a straight line but rather like a small hill

[Old Meister]

Sometimes, when I try to envision the physics of an action I go to the extremes to see if it makes it more plain what is happening. In this case I imagine a man with a ball as a foot hitting the ball. This is why I said rounded edges as it is the same scenario as a cue ball cutting  the object ball. A small tipped cue hitting that same point but shooting straight ahead only imparts spin but does not make the ball squirt off at the angle it is struck opposite of. At least this is my madness. I am totally able to admit to being wrong and think it would be a lot of fun to be capable to change foot shapes in order to play and figure it out.

[Anderson]

I am so glad you just posted. I was just getting ready to expand further on the idea of changing the feet. If not the feet, then the entire man. The fireball table opens up an entirely new market and I hope they follow up with it. Rather than designing one man, they have the potential to design several men for different playing styles. Since it is so easy for them to remove the rod and plug in another, one could just bring their own rod and play their own style against whatever style their opponent chooses. There would have to be a standard ball, but the mere potential of this is why I am buying a Fireball ASAP. I hope they expand their current goals for the foosball market. It seems that they are only trying to get into the market with an affordable table, but they have the potential to offer something that no one else has.

But on the interchangeable feet, you can apply that to any table. Each table would just design new men for the table, and players can then choose to put whatever feet they like. Would the other tables manufacturers buy into that idea?

[Old Meister]

Anderson, I just played the Washington State Open on Fireball and I not only would have changed the feet but the head too and this is why,, I liked the light rods ok but the men also feel light so the feed back isn't where I want it. I'd like the option to make the men heavier for that reason. As far as the foot shape I would mute the hard edges of the faces making up the front of the foot. I'm not talking the sides, the jury is still out on that, but to round out the angular planes of the foot and play around with the cross section thickness of the foot also as it seems quite thick. I imagine that might deal more with how high the foot is above the table and also how high the point of the angle from one plane to the other is above the table. How all that translates into the feel each player is looking for in relation to their particular style and shot selection is what we are really talking about. Well it truly is an interesting dimension to the direction of the game. I would have loved to see the faces of those I played against this weekend if I were to pull out my own custom rod and proceed to shoot foos the way I know, not the way the table will let me.

[Anderson]

Well, I'm going to find out soon enough. I'm buying a Fireball in August, and I'm going to learn how to design my own men, and I'll experiment with them on my own table. Would there be patent issues if I just started designing foosball men for whatever rods are out there? Anyone know how one goes about designing and manufacturing the men? I think this idea can really take off, and if it does, it would all be possible on the Fireball, because of the ease of changing the rods. I guess it would be easiest to design a man with a removable toe and then design the toes, but that might affect the durability of the man. We'll see. I'm going to do it.

[gitablok]

Sometimes, when I try to envision the physics of an action I go to the extremes to see if it makes it more plain what is happening. In this case I imagine a man with a ball as a foot hitting the ball. This is why I said rounded edges as it is the same scenario as a cue ball cutting  the object ball. A small tipped cue hitting that same point but shooting straight ahead only imparts spin but does not make the ball squirt off at the angle it is struck opposite of. At least this is my madness. I am totally able to admit to being wrong and think it would be a lot of fun to be capable to change foot shapes in order to play and figure it out.

OM, you have forgotten about one of the properties of physics and pool and that is throw. In pool when two round edges meet, there is a certain amount of friction that happens. In other words, when a ball is cut to the left, the object ball is actually rubbed to the right first then it proceeds to left second. Speed and distance are also factors in how much that throw angle will be. That is why you see easy shots missed sometimes because of the english used on the cue ball,the object ball is thrown out of the desired path line of the pocket.

Now round edges and a ball...... do you get it now? That's why the older Tornado men do not bank consistently because speed, distance, force among other variables will affect the angle of the ball coming off the man. Now sharpen that edge, you lessen that time or " friction " when the man meets the ball. When you do that you improve accuracy and consistency because you have eliminated that " throw " factor. Other than the side strips, that's why the new Tornado men bank better... sharper edges. Even though the Bonzini's overall shape is round, all edges are right angles and sharp. That's why the banks shots and especially chip passes are just sick on this table.

Hope that helps in your madness OM.

[Old Meister]

I hear you and know exactly what you are talking about Ice. I think you get a hint of what I'm talking about too and I really am keeping an open mind on all of it. What I'm looking for in play is the ability to dribble from front to back pinning and keeping in contact with the ball fluidly throughout all that. I was playing a style using that on Deutschmeisters and bluetop TS tables. In short, every option was on the table. That is what I'm after and I have a very open mind about how to get there. I really don't know what will give it to me but I do know what I want and it isn't about the table correcting my mistakes. I want a certain feel and to be able to customize the men is really something I'm looking forward to working on. If this is the direction of our game then we have yet to see the most amazing play. It really is on the Fringe,,,