Topic: A little hesitant about stopping by to ask a question (updated...again) :)

[wayupnorth]

You guys seem pretty hard-core, so I'm a little nervous about even asking this question...  

So, just for a moment, pretend that you have only a cursory interest in foosball and that you're not 100% certain how much you'd actually end up using a table because, well, because you've never really owned a table...  

Now pretend that your family consists, at present, of mommy, daddy and two little kids...and that this table would be primarily for hanging out and diversifying our family fun nights.

Now pretend those little kids might maintain at least a passing interest in the game and that, one day, their buddies might hang out at our house instead of being out somewhere looking for trouble.  

Oh, and also pretend that, a couple of times a month, you might have some couple friends stop by and, occasionally, those friends might be interested in kicking a tiny little foosball around the table.  

Now, without telling me that the only table worth having is a new or used Tornado coin-op, could you tell me what type of table you'd recommend?  Pretty please?  This table would be near our nice family room, so I prefer that it not look like it came from Chuck E Cheese.  (I know, I know, but I'm a girl and looks matter to me.)  I'd prefer not to have to get a 15 year mortgage to purchase said table, so cost does matter.  

Oh, and to complicate things, we live on a small island in Alaska, so, if we invest in a ridiculously expensive table and decide we don't want it anymore, finding a new home for it would not be an easy task.  Same goes for shipping things here, which is one of the reasons I'd rather buy new than deal with an individual trying to cope with shipping to our little corner of the world, which can get expensive and complicated with an assembled table.  

Part of me wonders if I shouldn't just buy something inexpensive for now to see if a table is going to be right for us, but I know that a crappy table can make it not so fun to play.  However, as I said, I would also be horrified to buy a high-end table and find that it ends up gathering dust.

So what would you do?  Buy a cheap table for a trial run?  Are there any decent cheap tables out there that would serve the purpose of a "starter" table that won't be absolutely awful to play on?  Then, if we end up loving it, we could invest in a really good table later...  Or, for our purposes, should we just buy a upper-middle-of-the-road table (<$800) that will be decent enough to keep for the long haul?  If this option, can you advise on this level of table?  I had been looking at one called the Sportcraft AMF Torino, which fits my "must not look like it belongs in a bar" criteria, but I'm not sure how durable it is going to be.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

[Old Meister]

It sounds like you are against the cost of a Tornado or Bonzini although the Bonzini would be safer for little ones to be around due to the telescopic rods. I would look for an older, but in good shape, Tournament Soccer table. They are a lot of fun to play on and are probably a lot better than these Walmart specials offered today in the chain stores.

[wayupnorth]

It sounds like you are against the cost of a Tornado or Bonzini although the Bonzini would be safer for little ones to be around due to the telescopic rods. I would look for an older, but in good shape, Tournament Soccer table. They are a lot of fun to play on and are probably a lot better than these Walmart specials offered today in the chain stores.

Thank you for your quick reply.  As I mentioned, however, living on a small island in Alaska, finding and shipping a used, assembled table is just not an option. 

I would like to buy new.  I saw several tables on this website (www.justfoosballtables.com) in the <800 price range.  I guess I'm wondering if any of them are any good.  I'm not above investing in this sport, but having never owned a table (and living in remote Alaska where selling a quality table would be challenging at best), I am leary of spending $2,000 on a table if I'm not even certain it would be a good fit for our family.

[PGA_Fooser]

Buy Tornado, just Tornado, blah blah blah.

Seriously, I checked the website you mentioned and found that you can get better pricing on the Tornado models they offer by contacting www.tornadofoosball.com directly.  Charles MacIntosh runs that firm and ships anywhere. 

All the tables on the website had full rods that extend out the other side of the table.  If you consider this a risk to small children, contact Alan Cribbs http://bonziniusa.com/  about a Bonzini table.

In both cases, buy new, keep it well maintained and lubricated.  Don't spill drinks on it, and in 6 months or 20 years depending on how much you've enjoyed it, you'll be able to resell the table, even with shipping from Alaska, for at least half the price you paid.  Used TOP END foosball tables hold their value.

Once you make your selection, there are many posts up here about maintenance, about tips for playing better, etc......and not everyone on this site is a lunatic.

Enjoy...

P.S.  Start an Alaska foosball site.  You'll be amazed to learn how many folks play and how far they'd travel to find others that love the game.

[Will17]

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/spo/2071669952.html

If you buy something like that and end up playing a lot then consider buying a Tornado.

If you want to buy new as you mentioned, then look into "performance games". They make tables that are similar to Tornado/Fireball and are really well built.

A place called Pathmark Games here in Edmonton, Canada sells tables with custom designs on them, and they are not as expensive as new Tornado tables at all. You might be able to find a Performance Games distributor closer to you. If you are going to buy a table that is not Tornado/Bonzini/Fireball, then Performance Games or Shelti are the best two brands IMO.

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=244658178&ImageIndex=1

[Alan Cribbs]

Wayupnorth,

I am familiar with about every table known to man.
For your specific needs I would suggest a telescopic Rocket-It table.

Inexpensive and has the telescopic option. I think it is available through foosball.com also.

For longevity, I would have to go with Bonzini mainly because they do not change their design every year and they hold value.
 
For popularity, there is always Tornado in multiple price ranges and models.

And Fireball seems to be balancing cost and quality for that style of table.

Good luck!


AC

[wayupnorth]

Wow, you have all been incredibly helpful.  Thank you for taking the time to reply and offer such specific information.  Looks like I have plenty to keep me busy researching in the very near future.  I really appreciate it.

[wayupnorth]

Okay, so I've been researching.  Another question.  In the Tornado line, is the "Sport" level table a decent table?  Do you get quality at all levels or do you have to buy higher end to get quality?  I can get the "Sport" for about $740.  Or, the next step up in the Tornado line is the "Classic" for $950.  There are other recommended brands in this price range, as well.  Just wondering what your thoughts were...?

[gitablok]

If you can find someone that has one and someone to ship it to you, Fireball will be the biggest bang for your buck in my opinion. I have played most every table in the world, no doubt my favorite is the Tornado and normally I would advise someone to buy any model Tornado, BUT...... there have been so many quality control issues in the past , don't know if I can still do it. I would hate to see you get a brand new table with a warped surface or rods that bend easily.

If the Tornado has any more issues, I will no longer recommend it. The home model Fireball, although a little light, is possibly the most solid table built right now. Legs that extend up into the cabinet make the table super solid and rods that flex like crazy but retain their shape and are super fast " without " silicone make this table hard to beat for the price.

Bonzini, the safest out their but has a super crazy price in the 3000 dollar range, and style of play is limited on this table. Warrior..... cheap, but you get what you pay for, not user friendly. The Tornado is a great table just be careful, even buying a new one will be like buying a used car, buyer beware.

i would recommend Fireball. A solid table, at a good price , that is very playable. You might research where the last Fireball tourneys were held, they may even still have some for sell.

[JnK]

to be honest any table you get would be good, behind the reason u wanna play, if you wanna play competitive any world type table would be good, from a champion world roberto sport table, or a world european garlando, to even tornado, lemacher or even bonzini,

now if u just wanna have fun with friends, having it when anyone comes over to play, then i think u might wanna consider european type tables like a roberto sport or garlando, btw no home version should be bought,  they are a waste of money feel and everything goes out the door, and they get ruin pretty quickly...

it all depends on what u are looking for, everyone here has a biased opinion in some way or another, even myself i have a biased opinion, i like all tables if its a table i wanna play  regardless of make or model,  but i have some preference good example my favorite table is a tornado, but its not my best table...

if you understand what i mean...  so  if  you are interested sorry if u posted this b4 tell us what u are looking to do for with the table if its for fun or hobby

btw if i did have to choose if it was just for fun, i would get the champion world roberto sport table, u can play fast or slow ball, the glass floor can flip so u can play for fast or slow, thats 2 surfaces for the price of 1, plus it comes with bicycle grip handles so u never have to worry about buying grip, its the Italian world table, that they play fastball and slowball, but more fastball like azurri 1 touch the men are good for pining good for passing,

but the ball and men are smaller than tornado and the ball smaller than tornado, the bar's can bend, b/c there not as strong i think they have tescopic rods thats why they dont bend, even though the bars are flimsy and the biggest thing that most people like about them is, u dont have bars coming out of the other side to accidently hurt any kids or people bending there head down....

it came down here to toronto canada briefly but didnt take b/c the promoter did a poor job, put out maybe 4 tables in no name places all over ontario...

when we have over 4 mill people here LOL

ps do not ever buy a college or home version of this table, it has to be a champion world edition if they try to sell u a lower level brand keep moving...

[tonyfromak]

hello I know what your saying, my name is tony and i live in anchorage, their is a web site alaska foosball.com but the board doesnt get that much activity. Anyway on craigslist for anchorage their was a almost new t2000 for sale I think its a former player of ours named guy selling it. also theirs AAA billiards in anch that sells tables. Also you could try mountain coins in seattle wa. and ask for steve levy, tell him tony sent you. They should still sell home models. I am originally from sitka where in the bar at the sitka hotel  is a home model tornado on free play you could check out and see what you think. theirs also the boys and girls clubs that might sell old tables they get a lot donated to them. I tell freinds that any good table should have 2 qualitys a least, 1 you should not be able to push the surface of the table down at all when you push your hand down in the center of the table , next ask if you can buy all the replacement parts you might need? This will eliminate 98% of all costco sears etc tables. People in the lower 48 dont know that shipping can run up to 300- 600 dollars in alaska, depending on where it has to go. Seatlle is a good option freinds have had home model tornados shipped on the ferry boat from seatlle to anc for 125$   All my freinds who have bought tornados are now happy with them and they lots or only when they can talk freinds into a game. But now that they have them they wouldnt buy cheap. At first they were really reluctant because the cheaper costco etc were stareing them in the face for 200-500 dollars cheaper, the ones who bought cheap are now wondering where to get parts although half of them dont admit it. The remoteness of alaska and the long winter nights make have a good game to play more vauble then the states. Also a good table can take really rough play which will become imporant when your kids become teenageers.  Even adults take agression out on foosball, so kids can to like a karate class. I will be going home to sitka dec 10-19 if thats where you live maybe i can show a little about foosball.    tony

[wayupnorth]

Thanks again for all the amazing follow-up and information.

Tony from AK, I know you understand my concerns with our remoteness and shipping up here.  Shipping Southern Alaska Forwarding out of Seattle is typically the most reasonable way of shipping up from the lower 48 and something we have done often.  As you know, dealing with a table that has "issues" of any kind is so much more complicated up here.  This is part of why I had hoped to buy new...if the table arrived with issues, a manufacturer or store is much more likely to resolve the problems than an individual.  We are in Kodiak, btw.

There were several brands here that were recommended and I have been looking into them all.  I have been unable to find where to even try to buy (or find a price for) a Fireball - seems they maybe just take orders for them at tournaments, plus (and don't laugh at me) the field looks to be a bright blue color, which I'm not crazy about.  The Bonzini is definitely out of our price range.  Several others only seemed to come in bright "sporty" colors or aluminum, which is just not an option for the room this will be going into (I know, I know...)  The Performance Tables appeared solid from what I could tell online, but seemed to be priced similar to what I could get a Tornado for.  The Rock-it build just looks like it might not stand the test of time and is a little too contemporary in styling with the metallic cabinets for me.

On several of the others, what is truly confusing for the foosball newbie is that there are so many different levels of tables within the brands.  It's overwhelming!  If I could narrow down to a brand with wood(like) cabinets, then maybe I could continue to narrow down based on price and quality.

Someone asked what my purpose was for the table.  This will definitely be a "for fun only" type of table with casual use by us and friends, however, one of you made a point that, one day, we'll have teenagers beating on this thing and we all know they are "gifted" at wear and tear.  With that in mind, you are correct, a good quality table is going to be worth its investment in the long run.

I am struggling a little with several comments that were made:

First)  One of you said not to even think about buying a "home use" table.  Is this *any* home use table?  Are all of the non-commercial tables really going to be that lacking?? 

Looking at Tornado as one example, there seem to be four levels.  Tournament 3000 (coin op AND non-coin op), Elite, Classic, and Sport.  Are you saying that the Elite, Classic, and Sport shouldn't even be considered?  Also, is the Tournament 3000 coin op a different quality than the Tournament 3000 non-coin op or simply the same machine without the coin op mech?  Personally, I would prefer not to deal with a coin op mech simply because is it unnecessary and would become one more moving part to maintain and worry about jamming or breaking. 

As an aside, the darn T-3000 is an aluminum-style cabinet and that just won't work for me.  I did get an e-mail that listed a used 2002 T-2000 Mahogany coin op.  in very good condition (whatever that means).  But, again, I'm worried about a used table appearing dirty or worn, concerned about the coin-op mech and, being in Alaska, I'm worried that, if there is an issue or a problem with this 10-year old table, any issues might quite difficult to resolve.

Second)  The Tornado brand name is thrown around here a lot as top-end, however one of you mentioned some quality-control issues that have me concerned.  Are the quality control issues on the lower-end tables or on all of them?  If there were problems, how is Tornado customer service for handling issues?

Third)  To make things more complicated, it seems there is another line () of Tornado tables by Valley-Dynamo like the Cyclone ii and the Storm?  WTH?  Are these Tornado tables also, or is this a subsidiary???  If a subsidiary, are they as good as the "regular" Tornado models.  <sigh>

PGA_Fooser turned me onto tornadofoosball.com for better Tornado pricing.  I just heard back from them and the prices seem very competitive, but I'm really struggling with what to do based on the questions I listed above.

I'm sorry to continue to ask questions, but, as I am learning more from your posts, I'm finding my questions are getting more specific.  You've been incredibly helpful and I really appreciate your continued patience with me.   It's clear you must love the sport to put up with a newbie like me. 

[tonyfromak]

I know of many people who have home model older tornado tables that are very happy with them , in your exact situation and requierments. But they all live in anchorage or fairbanks. I think any thing above the storm will be perfect for you, if you want forever. You must not let any foosball table get wet, they will warp and be ruined. Kodiak is rain country, although i think tornado made a outside table once. Try calling parkwood inn and ask for randy comer , ask him if he knows if Matt littledog is still trying to sell his table? Its a tp 2000 probaly 1998 the top comes off but no coin op. This used to be my home table. It was in really good shape when I sold it to him. I think he wants 500-700$ for it. It would have cost 1200 back then without shipping, so your looking at a 1400-1500$ table. If you buy this one then when you get it order online a parts kit of new style balls, pins, lube, 4 men black and yellow a couple of bearings and go off the serial number on the tag of the table. When I would vend tables in anchorage, the tables in bars would get really dirty and grimey. But a good cleaning with half rubbing achol and half 409, and the bars would think I put in a new table. AAA billards sells alll the parts you will need in anchorage. Talk to who ever vends pool tables and darts they will know AAA and proably know about tornado.

[JnK]

if i was you i would consider the cyclone II tornado table or the world champion roberto sport table...
the levels of tornado you are talking about is the weight of the table,

thats the only difference,when u goto home version... of tornado like storm or whirlwind they dont have the dual bearing that gives the tornado table the proper feel..

1 of the biggest differences you are gonna find if you buy a used table is the handle will be wood... the new t3k tornado has new plastic handle alot better than the wood that u would need to put grip on all the time except to louis cartwright who never uses a grip or did that change LOL

but if u want to get a tornado... cyclone II would probably be your best bet for your bite... or a coin up model t2k that u can buy used... i have a friend in buffalo that wants to get rid of his...he won his at a tourney and rarely ever uses it... he has sold many tables to alot of peeps in ontario soo.. i know he gives good quality tables

[shift]

G'day mate!  Greetings from Tasmania - island off the bottom of Australia.  Read this post with interest... A group of mates and I started with some kids foosball tables - kind you buy for $100 in the shops here - made for kids and play like it... But we got the bug, and when two tables broke we custom built our own.... Then we got more serious and shipped in... At huge cost... A French garlando world cup level table.... We're Now affiliating with itsf and aim to put a team into the world cup in 2012- australias first .... So moral of the story...
Whatever you choose - get a table... Anything is better than nothing...  Get into it - big time- and move up as the need takes you!