Topic: A little hesitant about stopping by to ask a question (updated...again) :)

[bbtuna]

the point is how much better a coin op is than a home model...there are two things to consider, one is playability and the other is durability

on durability a coin op is a 10, a Cyclone is a 7, and a Storm is a 4.5 and the cheapest tables you can get at Sears or Walmart are something like .5 ...so, if a person can get a 10 for the price of a 7 or 3.5 its simple math

on playability there are two parts-
Part 1 is what can be done on a table and in the case of Tornado, coin/Cyclone/Storm all shots and passes you can do on one table you can do on the other

Part 2 is how well can you do them or how easy can you do them...coin op is a 10, Cyclone is an 8, Storm is a 5, Twister is 3...its like buying a guitar...any guitar will allow you to play every note but they don't all play the same or sound the same...the reaction and tone are different...now a novice player may not see, feel, or understand all the differences but the differences are still there and it is factual to say one guitar is better than the other

so, regardless of how you are going to use the table, your plans or motives, it would ALWAYS be better to buy a better guitar for the same as you could buy a lesser guitar

see, you buy the table for home use but what if things change and you decide to play tournaments or someone in your family catches the fever…if you have the coin op, no change is needed…if you stay casual its no problem, you have a table that will literally last your entire lifetime with minimal care and if you decide to sell the table, the table will hold its value better and will have a wider audience to sell to…casual player, tournament player, bar owner/promoter…if you have a home model you have only the casual player

[John M]

bolt 115

...it seems like you know foosball tables!...considering this, you dont have to defend the storm vs a coin-op just because you own the storm. The players that are expierenced know the quality difference between the storm and coin-op and I think you do as well.

I think tuna is trying to illustrate "the best bang for your buck" for the new players that are looking for some help here in choosing the best table they can....which is a used coin-op!

[BillV]

wayupnorth has two concerns that recieve very little attention in this discussion.
For reference I have a gray marble Tornado Coin op.

Concern 1 is if the table is beat up or not. Buying used anything can be a problem, particularly if you can't inspect it yourself. Speaking of Tornado or other quality coin-op any problem with rods or men or bearings can be fixed for a price. The cabinets hold up extrmely well unless abused. But they can be abused. I'm not talking about hard play, I'm talking about cigarette burns or kicked out coin slots.  And it sounds like wayupnorth wants something that is boing to look really nice in the game room or wherever. Most later model used at home will qualify and many bar tables will to with just a little cleanup, but unless you can get someone independent to have a look I don't know how you can be assured.

It sounds like if wayupnorth avoids the metallic or "refridgerator" look in a Tornado which she does not want anyway, the "warped" playfield problem will be avoided.

Concern 2 is proper packing for shipping. Most used sellers just want you to pick it up. Finding the right table, good deal, good quality, AND good packing seems highly unlikely to me.

The only idea I have for wayupnorth in this vein is someone like Mary Moore selling a older model tournament table that she either has laying around or sells it for someone she knows that wants newer. She has boxes from new tables and some idea of proper packing. Her contact info from the other board is:
Mary Moore
IFP Pro Tour
ifpprotour@gmail.com
Web Site: www.ifptour.com

Course I have no idea if she has any time for this.
Any other ideas to combat these to issues?

Bill

[bolt115]

UNCLE!



patronizing, patronising [ˈpætrəˌnaɪzɪŋ]
adj
having a superior manner; condescending
patronizingly , patronisingly adv

[jinhopark]

Tony from AK, I know you understand my concerns with our remoteness and shipping up here.  Shipping Southern Alaska Forwarding out of Seattle is typically the most reasonable way of shipping up from the lower 48 and something we have done often.  As you know, dealing with a table that has "issues" of any kind is so much more complicated up here.  This is part of why I had hoped to buy new...if the table arrived with issues, a manufacturer or store is much more likely to resolve the problems than an individual.  We are in Kodiak, btw.

Look at this eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Valleys-Tornado-Coin-Operated-Foosball-Arcade-Game-/330504227847?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf3964c07#shId

Do you think that $275 would include shipping to Alaska?  It says shipping to the United States, but does that typically exclude Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and other US Territories?  Depending on how much this table sells for, and if the seller is willing to ship wayupnorth then I would think this table could be had for a bargain!  Those are a lot of assumptions though...

UNCLE!



patronizing, patronising [ˈpætrəˌnaɪzɪŋ]
adj
having a superior manner; condescending
patronizingly , patronisingly adv

In the most non-patronising/non-condenscending way...and having owned both a higher end home model and currently owning multiple coin-ops the more financially sound purchase would be a used coin-op over a new or used home model Tornado.  This logic holds true even if the home model played EXACTLY like the coin-op, which in my opinion the coin-op has various levels of superior play depending on the home model version you are comparing it to.  Then again, consider the source, this is coming from a newbie/hack like myself.  If you have a table and like to play, then that's cool enough for me.  Foos-On!

[bolt115]

What prompted me to respond here initialy was the premise that you can't play serious foosball on anything but a coin-op. I was sitting there thinking....I have a home table and I play pretty hard, both at home and on the t3000 in the pub. Now like everyone else an opinion based on personel experience is going to be pretty strong.

Now I can only speak about the foosball void I live in(VT) and I can't recall seeing a coin -op(tornado)  even for sale.  If I had read some post here at foosball.com prior to seeing my table on craigslist.com in all likelyhood I would have passed on it and foosball would still just be something I played 10 years ago.

Now if you can find a coin-op in the same condition and same price as a high end home model(i.e. in your budget) great. I tend to think that might not be the case in every location.

    Happy Foosing

[wayupnorth]

bbtuna and John M, I see what you are saying.  It helps to have the tables listed in a ranking from 1-10 based on their durability and quality.  This is a nice way to illustrate the differences.

Thank you for addressing these issues for me BillV.  I have sent a message to Mary Moore as you suggested.

jinhopark, I missed that listing.  Typically, shipping prices would only go as far as Seattle.  From there, it would be around $200 extra to get to us via barge from there.

bolt115, you make a valid point.  A decent non-coin op table would be better than no table at all.  Seeing that it is quite difficult to find a used coin-op in my location to my specifications (i.e. wood-grained, excellent condition, well-packaged for shipping, etc.), I could certainly see how I might be still looking for that mythical coin-op table years from now and missing out on many years of Fun Family Foosball with my kids.  Definitely something to think about.

This is such a difficult decision.  What it comes down to is:  how long am I willing to wait for the "right" used coin-op table?  And how much more effort do I want to put into stalking Craigslist and eBay and various other locations waiting for the "right" table to materialize?  As bolt115 mentioned, if he had waited, it might have been years before he finally got a table - or maybe never if he finally got frustrated enough to give up on the hunt.

I was mulling this over with a friend this weekend.  After much discussion, she made a point considering the following ifs/ands:

1) IF I couldn't find the "right" coin-op in a reasonable amount of time (which, in reality, may take a long time to locate in our location)
2) and IF I just went out and bought that higher end home model (which I could potentially order tomorrow)
3) and IF, after 10 or 15 years, we discovered that the home table simply was not holding up and, worst case, we couldn't resell it at all and just scrapped it
---> 4) then maybe we would decide that, if we'd gotten even just 10 or 15 years of fun and entertainment with our family out of the table, then we probably wouldn't care what we spent on it and that we couldn't recover any of our investment

Many of you have made very valid points on all the sides of this discussion.  As so many of things in life are, this decision will end up being a compromise of some sort.  Basically I have to decide if I'd rather have a decent table sooner and start enjoying foosball with my family now or wait for the "perfect" excellent table and risk missing out on some quality fun with my family while I wait. 

I plan to give the "perfect" table a little more time to materialize, but, if it doesn't, I may just get that home model because it's available when I want it and A table is probably better than NO table.

[papafoos]

Just make sure you get a table that is worth replacing parts and the parts are readily available.

Shipping for parts would be $14.50 in a Priority flat rate box 12" x 12" x 5-1/2"
You could fit a lot of men, balls, pins, etc in a box that size.

For replacement bars, I used a 48" x 4" x 4" box as an example at 25 pounds (not sure how many bars that would be)
Priority Mail   3 Days $56.95
Parcel Post    12 Days $29.88

Really not bad prices (at least until they privatize)

The larger items would have to go freight.  Can you get a bank loan?

[jinhopark]

jinhopark, I missed that listing.  Typically, shipping prices would only go as far as Seattle.  From there, it would be around $200 extra to get to us via barge from there.

Well if you were the winner of that table for $360, and you would have paid the $275 to have it packaged and shipped...and even if you had to pay the $200 to barge it from Seattle to Alaski for $200...

That would have been $360 + $275 + $200 = $735...which isn't too bad considering your location.  Heck what if you found out the guy would have shipped it to Alaska for the $275...there isn't anything in the listing that said it excludes Alaska and Hawaii (although I'm sure it probably is implied).

I say keep trolling eBay and Craigslist and find someone that will work with you on the shipping...BTW, do any coin-ops ever come up in Seattle or Portland that you can have barged up to where you live?

[wayupnorth]

Well, in about 2 weeks (when the shipment arrives) I will be the proud new owner of...<insert drum roll here> a used coin-op. 

I had a line on a table that would work for me (given all my particular requirements) and finally broke down and just made the decision.  It's in great condition from a reputable dealer already had new rods put on it; I paid a little extra to upgrade everything else, too (men, handles, etc.)

Crossing fingers.  I'll update when it gets here!  Thanks for all the help!

[snake eyes]

Wayupnorth- YAY!! What cabinet color did you get??


Snake

[wayupnorth]

Wayupnorth- YAY!! What cabinet color did you get??

Snake

It's the mahogany with all the current upgrades.  Just couldn't bring myself to do any of the marbled or fridge colored cabinets in my home.

[snake eyes]

Way- Sweet!! I think you will like that table, You better have some strong fellas around to move it around!! That table goes about 355 lbs.



Snake

[bbtuna]

wayupnorth super super good and within her limits (Alaska) and needs (wood siding)
she got a prime cherry, fully upgraded to T3000, 12 balls, spare men, bearing wrench, spare pins, pin driver, bumper, a couple wraps, and a brand new FoosLight shipped from east coast south to west coast north for $995 -

  $995 Total Delivered
- $175 ish for upgrades
=$820
- $175 ish for shipping
=$645
- $140 FoosLight
=$505 Bottom Line for the table

WAYUP-please take pictures when you get it and let us all see the table you got, it will be fun

[tonyfromak]

Hope you have fun, be careful not to bend the hinges when you slide the top on the bottom cabinet. The top should close easliy when you lower it to the surface. So the first time you lower the top set it down gently, if it doesnt go flush something might not be lined up like the triangle shaped ball return ramps, that fit into 2 screw holes, they sit there they dont screw in.  It will feel like your packing out Kodiak brown bear when you haul it into your house ha ha .  The round feet on each leg will level the table. Put them all the way in and if your floor level your good to go. Otherwise 3 of them will have to be srewed out till level.   Alaska has very few tornado,s up here, now your in a very elite group, probaly for decades to come!!