Topic: From:Favorite shot poll

[RedRazor]

Is it Rule 21.4 or 21.4a that makes the Leap Frog illegal?  From what I am reading, 21.4 refers to 21.1, but 21.1 only mentions a pinned ball, not a stopped ball.

Also, it seems that 21.4a refers to 21.2a , but 21.2a only mentions if the ball is caught by the next rod, not struck.

21.4 applies 21.1 (including subsections) to 2- to 5-bar passing.  This includes all of 21.1 (21.1, 21.1a, 21.1b).
21.1a and b prevent passing a ball that has been adjusted or stopped (adjusted = touched by front or back of a man).

21.2b gives the definition of a pass, which includes a ball that is quick-shot.

FWIW, I'm a certified ref.  I can absolutely guarantee you that if you tried an adjustment pass from the 2-bar to the 5-bar on tour, it'd be ruled illegal (even if you quick-shot instead of catching the ball) whether it happened above or below the rod.

The rules are also heavily dependent on precedent (much like the law or the rules in, say, the NBA--travelling, for instance).  So it can be difficult to get a good grasp for what the actual rules are just from reading the book.  Which really sucks, and I've lobbied for a while to get a set of official interpretations published, but it's the current state of the world.  Just as one instance, although 21.4a only mentions 2- to 5-bar passing, the same rule applies to goalie-rod to 5-rod passing.  That's not written anywhere, but it's the official ruling.  In general, if you don't have access to official rulings you should be more interested in following the intent of the rules than the slavish written word if the two are obviously in conflict.

Would you be so kind as to give a definition and or example of the quick shot, adjustment pass, and squib pass?
And If I am understanding what I read you cannot pass from a pin or stopped ball. For example  I catch a ball on my two bar on the near side...ball is stopped and I execute a push around my opponents near man on his 3 rod to my 5 rod...Or a front pin pull kick to the 5 rod...This is illegal? The wriiten rules need interpretation, the whole passing section is confusing.

[foos-24/7]

 RR you should read the real rules on foosball.con page, the stopped and pinned ball pass only relates to the 5 bar men rod any where else you can pass whichever way you like. pass from goalie bar to 3 bar or 2 men bar to front 3 men bar. if you have the ball on your front 3 men bar pin position and it moves to your 5 bar it is not illegal trust  me. you should get some pro tour dvd"s and watch or buy a rules book. a sqiub pass really should touch two players before reattemting to pass again .happy foosing

[SumnerH]

And If I am understanding what I read you cannot pass from a pin or stopped ball. For example  I catch a ball on my two bar on the near side...ball is stopped and I execute a push around my opponents near man on his 3 rod to my 5 rod

This is illegal.

Or a front pin pull kick to the 5 rod

This is legal.

Attempted re-explanation of the passing rules.

A "pass" is anything where the forward rod exhibits any measure of control--anything where the forward rod's motion helped what happened.  So in addition to catching a ball, a quick-shot (drive-by where you whack at the ball), the forward swinging his men down as the goalie shoots, etc are all considered passes even though there's no catch.  But if the 3-rod is stationary and the 5-rod hits the ball and it just bounces off the 3-rod into the goal, the 3-rod didn't show any control over the motion of the ball and it's not a pass.

Rule A
IF 1. The ball stops or 2. The ball touches the front/back of any man on the bar
then
The ball must touch two men on the bar before being passed.

The primary exception is if you attempt to pin/brush the ball and it kind of "sticks" and squibs out forward--that's the accidental squib/stub.  But if it's pinned enough for you to, say, reverse what direction the motion was in, (you're doing a brush down, the ball pins, then you move the rod up away from you and the ball shoots out) that's too long--the squib/stub rule just means that if the ball kind of "hangs up" for an instant as you're executing the pass, it's legal.

The secondary exception is if the ball is coming from another rod, you can touch it once as a "defensive stop" and then immediately pass with the same man.  So, say, blocking the opponents pass/shot and immediately hitting it forward is allowed.   I put "defensive stop" in quotes because it could be that the ball came from one of your other rods and it's still legal to hit it once when it first arrives from another rod and then hit it again after that.

Rule A applies to passing from the 5-bar to the 3-bar, or from the goalie/2-bar to the 5-bar.  It does not apply passing from the goalie/2-bar to the 3-bar.

Rule B
Once the ball has hit the wall twice, it cannot hit the wall a 3rd time unless that contact is in the motion of the ball leaving the rod. So a fast wall pass or a brush down is okay, but doing a bounce off the wall pass is illegal.

Rule B applies to any possession on the 5-rod, not just passes (and doesn't apply on the 2-rod, 3-rod, or goalie rod).