Topic: Step 1 to move Foosball to Sport status - GET RID OF THE DRUGS!

[letsmovethisgameforward]

As much as we want foosball to be a SPORT, albeit highly competitive, it's still game. Sport is defined by strict rules of conduct and YES, DRUG TESTING. Just look what happened to Lance Armstrong recently. Every true sport does drug testing, at very least of the top placing money winners.

Drug use, all types, including some really bad stuff, runs rampant in the game of foosball and always has. Everyone who has ever played in foosball tourneys has won and lost to players on drugs, including major championships. I'm sick of just letting it pass when everyone in the room knows who is on what! It's a disgrace to the game, and absolutely robs legitimate clean players of their rightful winnings!

Testing kits are now inexpensive, reliable and should be on site at all medium to major tournament events. If they player fails a drug test, give a second test at the players expense, if both failed they should lose their winnings, and award to the next runner up, including championship winners.

I don't see any professional sports that don't at least have the policy of random testing, and certainly testing of monetary winners. This process would be a solid step forward in cleaning up the game, and finally rewarding non drug using players. There would be some hurt feelings at first, but who really cares about their feelings if someone is winning by cheating!

I've played this game for 30+ years and what is in the past is past. Every veteran player has been in the tournaments with wild eyed players jacked up on who knows what! We have watched them mow through clean players, and win the prize money and championships. You always wonder if they could have done that without the illegal performance enhancing drugs? We will never know, but now we need to know. I love this game but not the drugs! Clean up the illegal drug use and the game is one step closer to becoming a SPORT!

[SilentSam]

As much as it sucks to lose to someone who's coked out, I really don't see this happening. Drug testing is a very expensive process, so who's the cost going to fall on? I for one don't want to pay even more money for this. I don't see the top 3-5 players in the world ever consuming anything I would consider performance enhancing (I'm talking about Todd, Tony, Ryan Fred, and Billy here) so really what's the benefit? There's no way we're going to be testing 100% of the crowd, so the rest of the field are almost a moot point.

To push foosball forward, what we really need are sponsors, not drug testing. I feel the initiative in foos should be to alleviate the expense from the players to make it more worthwhile to invest time in getting better.

Edit: And using Lance as an example, he never tested positive, it was accounts of previous racers and teammates that got him busted. So a multi-million dollar sport such as cycling also doesn't really test thoroughly either, yet it is still considered a sport.

[letsmovethisgameforward]

First; I do appreciate your intelligent, well thought responses, and I agree with some of them. The top elite, clean players of the game are to be commended. However the idea that drugs are not an inherent part of the foosball tournament culture is naive at best. Obviously I'm not talking about clean players at any level of the game. This is directed to the tournament directors and sponsors; To identify and punish the cheaters... the illegal drug users. By proxy you will be rewarding the clean players, the one's who do it right.

Illegal drug use happens at every level of the game, starting with local tournaments. What do you really think those players are doing in the parking lots? This same behavior among some carries over to every tournament that they play in. Just because you don't see it does not mean it doesn't happen.

Second; I was really addressing the question of whether foosball is a game or sport. If the game is to ever gain sport notoriety the possibility or probability of drug use must be addressed and dealt with firmly. 

I did not suggest 100% testing of all participants, not even close. There should in fact be strict rules and always the possibility of drug testing. This can be noted as the possibility of random testing of participants, for reasonable suspicion of drug use, or the random testing of monetary winners. Will this deter all players from using, probably not... maybe after they get caught. We would not need to invent new drug testing policies, there are many out there already. Check other major sports, then copy, edit, post, implement and enforce... As much or as little as needed.

I agree that Foosball needs sponsors, but who would want to tie their name brands, financial assets or reputations to something that can hurt them. Big money sponsors have too much to lose and too little to gain. Without taking a firm stance to ensure no illegal drug use is allowed, you are by proxy allowing it.

Every great sport that has grown has the ability to reach out to very young people. As an adult I cannot say that I would encourage my kids or others to hang around most local foosball crowds. Many times the players look like, or act like drugged out thugs. That is a shame, because the game of foosball itself is great!

Here are some of the foosball players illegal drugs of choice, and many of these are felony type drugs or controlled substances. Marijuana (Legal in some places, not most), Cocaine, Crystal Methamphetamine, Oxycontine, Vicadin, Valium, etc... Players are clever to disguise their illegal drug use for various reasons;

1. Fear; They don't want to get caught for legal reasons, arrested, go to jail, fines, etc...
2. Reputation; They don't want other non drug using players to know that they are high.
3. Success; They have used illegal drugs to achieve success in foosball tournaments, and the winning is as addictive as the drugs.

Last, I wish that I was wrong, but I'm not. Foosball has the same ill's as the rest of our society. The difference is how it's dealt with, or not... I would like to see players deal break their addictions and play clean. I don't know if foosball tournaments are enough incentive to quit... thats a personal decision. I do know as a paying tournament player that there should be safeguards that disallow blantant cheating by illegal drug use. It's foosball's dirty little secret and always has been. Time to clean it up and move the game forward. 

[Tyler Foos]

The 1992 New Webster's Expanded Dictionary has the definition of 'sport' as 'a game', their definition of 'game' is 'sport of any kind, excersize for amusement, testing skill'.

I understand your desire to see foosball clean up its act, but to try to turn it from a game to a sport doesn't really address what you are striving for, IMHO.

Take care and good luck.....................................Tyler

[RobYates]

Well since you think foosball should be drug free....Should the consumption of alcohol be banned also? Sure alcohol is not illegal, but neither are a few of the drugs you listed when prescribed. Does any other "popular sport" allow drinking beer or crown during a match?

[papafoos]

I don't see drug testing as ever coming about until we get a sponsor.  Then, the sponsor has every right to demand it if they should choose to do so.

Bring it on.  I'm as clean as anybody.  I will admit though, on some Sunday nights after I've been eliminated from everything, I've had to follow the walls back to my room.

[Malamir]

Guys, it may sound weird but here is my problem... my passes suck big time, on the 3 bar I have only one decent shot - frontpin pull side, I suck at the push side... I know there must be a shortcut. Also I don't want to spend time practicing. Could you please tell me what drug should I take to improve my game?

Now seriously. I've seen only one high class tournament. But I haven't seen two things - money and drugs. I've seen 16yo boy to smack the highest ranked woman. Latter he beat two national champions and several seniors. He won the tournament. Nobody thought he's on drugs.
Now the two things... I was the only foosball fan there (for which I got a T-shirt) But if there are no fans - how can there be money?
Second, nobody even mentioned "drugs". One of the players had a beer but his team-mate wasn't happy with it. Apparently alcohol is bad for the speed.

I think this is paranoia.

[alaskan thunder]

This idea will never fly. Our sport has been bleeding players for decades and it seems that the numbers are going to continue to decline.  It sounds like you are just angry at some guy doing a line in the bathroom prior to beating you.

First: No one will pay for it, even if it were cheap.
Second: It would only reduce the player base. The dude that smoked a joint two weeks ago is now disqualified. The guy w/ ADD and a script for adderall is now disqualified. It just wouldn't work.
Third: I personally would rather play against someone on drugs. Coke, meth, adderall, etc, although they may speed up reactions, have more negative consequences than positive ones. IME people tend to get overly jittery and make more  mistakes than they otherwise would.
Fourth: What about alcohol?

I spend quite a bit of time w/ Tony S, Tom Y, Bobby D, all of whom are multiple world champions. I see them drink but am quite sure they don't do hard drugs. If the best players in the world don't use them, I couldn't care less what everybody else does.

[Pat]

It makes no sense to compare performance enhancing drugs to recreational drugs.  Most performance enhancing drugs are taken to improve recovery and allow the athlete to train at a higher intensity.  They are not magical pills that automatically improve performance in competition.  Also, the performance gain from doping is approximately 3%, which is significant only for world class athletes.  The equivalent of doping for foosball would be something that allows you to practice for hours and never get bored.

It's too bad that foosball is decreasing in popularity in America.  It seems to be growing in Europe.  I play in the Hamburg league which is only 5 years old and already has 600 members.

[Gwasshoppa]

The mistaken assumption here is that people play better on drugs. Having been on both sides of the fence, I can tell you that from a pure performance perspective... they don't.

The sad fact is, that the guy who beat you half wasted on whatever, would have beaten you far worse had he been fully functional. I think that's really the bitch here, getting burned because you got burned by someone operating at half capacity while you believe you're operating at full capacity.

Even that assumption is mistaken, that people not "doing drugs" are operating at full capacity. For one thing, everything you put in your body has pharmacological effects, food, drink, air, even your soaps and cosmetics. Mix all that with everyone's personal schisms and isms if the chemistry alone isn't enough for you.

I wish I had a nickel for every idiot that thinks because they don't do drugs they've somehow risen above their fellow man who does. At least those of us deliberately medicating ourselves realize we're f'd up.

Foosball is a game, and I for one am glad it's going to stay that way. Hell, why stop at foosball? Why not shove your personal rulebook up everyone's ass so we all become vanilla flavored robots.

Or, you could pull the morally rigid stick out of your ass and see what it's like to have fun

[Anderson]

Well since you think foosball should be drug free....Should the consumption of alcohol be banned also? Sure alcohol is not illegal, but neither are a few of the drugs you listed when prescribed. Does any other "popular sport" allow drinking beer or crown during a match?

Robert, the problem with banning alcohol goes to the heart of the only remaining foosball venue. Foosball primarily only exists now in bars. Bars exist to make money primarily off of alcohol. Your player base will diminish even more banning alcohol. I agree however that both drugs and alcohol are abused at foosball tournaments everywhere. It doesn't bother me as much as it does the original poster. I have a few beers when I go out to play foosball. My alcohol consumption has greatly decreased over the years, but I usually have to go to a bar to play foosball. The bar is not as welcoming when their primary source of income disappears. It's too bad that this is the current state of foosball, but it is what it is. 

[letsmovethisgameforward]

Ok, everyone take a chill pill (oh wait thats a drug too)! LOL

I'm far from a puritan, and I like beer (my last vice, dohh!)

This is a foosball forum that enables us to discuss things that we care about.

Foosball is a game, a very fun game played mostly in bars.

The idea that it will leap to prominence, with the youth, like football, baseball, basketball, tennis, etc... just very unrealistic.

I've been playing since 1972 (dang I'm old!) and I was merely illustrating that the game has not, is not growing, sorry! The payouts in tournament 20-30 years ago were much higher, with lower entry fees! That is insane, pathetic and almost unheard of in most games or sports have still exist.

I know that we get used to our buddies who use drugs, but it's not ready for prime time, and might never be. I wish that I was wrong. I love to play the game, and I've come to the reality that the game itself might have already reached it's peak many years ago.

Anyhow, have fun and try to not put an eye out with that dang monkey shot!

[RobYates]

I did not say alcohol should be banned at all in my post. I was just asking the poster how he felt about alcohol, since he had such a problem with all these drugs.  When I have heard plenty of people talk about how a beer or 2 calms there nerves.

 I got no problem with anybody playing on any drug. I don't need excuses, if I lost its because I didn't play good enough. Actually its mainly Bonzini tournaments played in Bars. All your major Tornado events are in hotel ballrooms, so I dont think a lack of drinking will hurt the hotel, who makes bank off the tournaments.

If there is any drug I could have a problem with, that would be Adderall. Which is used to treat ADD. So it helps with focus and also keeps you awake, which can be a major advantage when your playing the finals at 4am on Sunday......my main point was going to be, even if you eliminate drugs. You will still have players drinking "while" playing. How can the game be taken seriously from an American perspective when its a "bar game" - according to Anderson. If foosball ever wants to be on TV, they will have to eliminate the bar game image.

 You can't have kids watching Foosball on TV and seeing players drinking during timeouts, and beer bottles all over the floors of the tournament room. At least drug use is typically in the shadows, where as alcohol is very much out in the open at foosball tournaments....Hell baseball players were prevented from chewing tobacco while playing because of the image it made on the sport....So why would America accept a sport that fully promotes drinking and playing.....

[letsmovethisgameforward]

Good job Rob, you are right on target. I grew up playing in game rooms, now sports bars, and I've seen and done it all. As you grow up and have kids you start to think and act more responsibly. I see the years and tournaments come and go and nothing really changes. I know it's not for lack of caring players. Back when I was a teenager playing foosball in the 70's I believed that Foosball would be in the Olympics by the 80's. Look at how many squirrelly events are now in the Olympics? I'm probably just tripping but just on Ibuprophen! LOL I just want to get the discussions going, maybe that is a start.

[IndyGunworks]

I dont think bar game image comes from having booz while playing.  Sure, if you are going to be on TV you should not be able to see the beers, but look at the success of poker and darts.  Even billiards is a "bar" game.  All three of these see lots of success both on TV and in the bars, and i am quite certain that there are no dart specific venues other than the bars.

The fact of the matter is this is a social issue and nothing more.  Soccer is not as popular in america as it is elsewhere, and even has a certain negative stigma in some circles. 

Push hard for foosball to become more popular socially and you will see the rise.  Maybe some foosball clubs in highschools accross the country will promote early success amongst young players. 

Loosing the player base didnt happen overnight, so gaining it back will not happen overnight, it has to be a multi generation approach, and it must be approached making it more popular socially.

Find a way to make quality tables cheaper so more people want them.  Advertise the fun of foosball in the home as a family affair during prime time television.  Push for a foosball table to be THE christmas gift of the year. (my love of foosball came from playing in a girlfriends home during highschool). 

Long story short is its got to start somewhere, and convincing adults to pick up the game is not where its at.  Its making the game a fun thing for the average household.  Once you get people loving it at home, they will seek out the higher levels of play and competition on their own.