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Favorite shot

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2007, 05:11:01 PM »
To answer why a pull is so high and a snake is lower than you thought look at the list of favorite shots to block. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 10:36:19 AM by diggy »

Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2007, 12:14:10 AM »
Its my first time posting here so i wanted to tell you a little about me. Im a pro under USTSA and i live in Toronto Canada. I have been playing tornado since 2004, before that i played on glass tops. I started on glass tops. playing a style that is called fastball. the rules are as follows you can not touch the ball more than once on any rod. I no longer play that style competitive as i once did because no one really plays it anymore. It use to be crazy competitive i went to Italy to play and got 2nd with Paolo Zeperi in that event. Its still a great way to sharpen your hand eye.

As for what shot you should pick to start out. You can take different strategies for this. The way i did it was I started out shooting a pushkick, than a pull kick, than i shot a snake, shot a front pin, and now im starting with the pull shot. The way i look at it know i would recomend everyone should start out with a pull shot cause its ideal in the goal position. Thats were all rookies start out. You should be very diciplined find a shot that you want to perfect as best as possible and only do that, i know it might feel that its not very fun but if you want to be the best than your going to have to put your time and effort in one shot. It gets confusing when you start out trying One of every shot. When you dont have the proper mechanics it messes you up more to constantly switch your shot.

If you want to get good fast forget about winning. you should never think about winning. Think about what you can possible do to get better. Stick with a shot and keep moving your hand around keep trying new things till you here a bang. Once you hear that bang try and remember what you did. It should feel natural. So you have to find your natural stroke it will come.

Its hard to explain over the computer how to shoot a pull but i will give it a shot

1 Take a step back with your right foot (its easier on the rist)
2 The back hand should be quite straight with the top of your forarm
3 Hold the handle like a tennis racket
4 You should have the handle running throught the middle of your hand so your palm by your thumb is touching the handle and kind of sitting on it.
5 Your follow threw is very important, your recoil is natural dont think about it when you find your sweet spot the ball will squeeze out. You should focus on where you want to end up hitting the ball.

The way i started learning the grip was to put the ball in the squeeze position as far back as possible without stubbing it and keep shooting. Try to find different mechanics till you hit the one. Once you hit the one keep hitting it till it starts feeling really natural. Than set the ball up on the dot and start shooting.

Trust me it will help you more if you shoot the ball on a standstill in the middle of the table. Set up like you are shooting a pull shot put the ball in the middle in the squeezed position and keep on nailing it. Learn to shoot the middle first than slowly move towards deadbar.

Mario Ariganello

Offline foosinaround69

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2007, 04:19:16 PM »
the backpin that is soooo fast it can hardly be blocked on either side as well as middle...  lol

Offline foosinaround69

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2007, 02:12:34 PM »
I happen to shoot a backpin different than anyone has seen so I've been told. This is because I have perfected it hours a day. I am able to shoot it dead bar on both sides and able to shoot it in the middle as well.I can do a lightning pull kick from it and brush in a middle. It really is a shot that I have never seen anyone do before.I am still getting it so I can wait a little longer so it is more effective. which it is. I probably score on a 80% average. Most people think I should not shoot it until they actually see me  shoot it!!!  I however shoot many other shot as well except the rollover , but none of them are as good as my backpin so I stay with that most often :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 01:36:58 PM by foosinaround69 »

Offline Daniel

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2009, 05:19:43 PM »
Wow almost 20,000 views this poll needs a bump.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2009, 08:08:35 PM »
The eclipse (aerial without getting the ball up on the men) is my favorite trick shot--tough to do on Tornado but I know one guy who can.  You basically knock the ball off the side strip, then when it pops up off the wall you hit the bottom of the ball with the man.  low-percentage but amazing.   Garlando players shoot it a lot more.

Tough to do on Tornado?  That's very strange to read, because the two "wingers" on the Goalkeeper rod make it really easy to get the ball up there.  I teach most beginners who are interested to set the ball on either wall, the "winger" & 2bar flush against the side, and hit it up after setting it just behind the goal rod.  Pretty easy.. then when they get used to it, they don't even need to be by the wall, no need for a walltrap as a guide.

I would have thought doing it with a single goal player was harder, with the goalkeeper on either end being used.  It was easy to cheat on the old TS browntops by slinging it backwards behind the goalplayer, and up the back wall, which on a TS was high enough to allow the ball to fall forward, compared to a Tornado wall, where invariably the ball goes on top of the back wall and rolls off.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2009, 05:50:47 PM »
Just 10 more votes to break a 100

Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2009, 05:27:30 PM »
Mine would have to be the snake. :) I'd like to learn the pull shot, but I have a lot of trouble racing the ball and straightening it out.
Which is the reason 99.9% of new foosball players are shooting the snake, rollover, monkey, wrist rocket........whatever. Look, that horse is out of the barn and its not going back in. But I have to say I agree with t loffredo on this one. I think the shot has watered down the game. So easy to learn and win with, anybody can do it. I'm not saying its easy to master, just easier to learn than other shots. Just my 2 cents. I'm just getting back to the game after a 14 year lay off and I am a pull shooter. It took me years back in the late 80's and early 90's to gain a real command of that shot. When I was out of the game for all of those years I would day dream about shooting the shot. I would visualize hammering the shot from memory in big tournament points.  I get a real adrenaline rush from crushing fast, long, deadmans. When I decided that daydreaming about it wasn't cutting it and bought a table earlier this year I was somewhat disheartened when I realized that I wasn't going to be shooting the pull like I did back in the 90's. However, after 5 months of practice, doing pull sessions every other day I am happy to report my adrenaline rushes are back. The shot is maybe just a hair slower laterally but just as hard to the hole. And I am crushing the dead long consistently. My shoulder and wrist can't take the pounding like when I was in my early 30's but I can shoot 50-100 hard pull shots a night and still play the next day. Day 3 is a real bitch though. I haven't taken it to a tournament yet but I'm getting close. Listen, I didn't start this post to regurgitate the history of my pull shot but what the hell. And oh by the way. This is for the "If you can't beat em' join em' category. I also started shooting a rollover because of A) its popularity B) its success in tournaments and C) I need a consistent backup to the pull for future tournament play that won't wear out my wrist/shoulder. I can shoot the push side long and pull side long but consistency is still an issue. Dam. Typing all of that was like therapy.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2009, 07:30:50 PM »
I don't get all this...  I look at killshot selection the same way as baseball pitching looks at pitch selection, which I've always regarded as the closest in higher speed ballcontrol and release principles to foosball 3bar shooting, and the more solid options you have, the better and more dominant you are as a shooting forward.  And obviously more consistent, too, because there are more weapons to choose against varying D's.

Sure, everyone will have and should have one favorite shot, but not an absolute one.  If a player has never encountered a goalkeeper or two or two hundred, who just happen to have a D that is so wall-like against that player's main shot, then that player has either never really played good competition, or is just extremely lucky.  If I remember the mid-90s when Tommy and Rob were dominating, besides switching up whether they were doing well in one position or the other... just to keep the opponents on their toes, they also alternated between pulls and rollovers, even within the same game.  I'm not aware, but has anyone else quintupled in one Worlds like Tommy did?

If one hasn't developed or found the correct technique for say, a hard fast long pullshot, from asking a pro or asking on line or watching vids, then keep looking, because many people have been doing that shot in literally DOZENS of workable styles, FOR DECADES.  Correct technique means correct drills and correct practice, not YEARS of practice (YEARS or PRACTICE = LATER YEARS of OSTEOPATHIC AND NERVE INJURIES).  If one doesn't have a physical impairment that makes it difficult to open one's mind to trying out several techniques and mastering a good pull or rollover or pullkick or push within WEEKS, then it's OBVIOUSLY A MENTAL IMPAIRMENT.  I keep seeing this in 20 year "forever" rookies who keep trying to reinvent the wheel, not using their means of finding out how to do it right, which gives me a ton of satisfaction when I train beginners to lambast their idiot world after a couple months work.  Although sometimes it's just a personal thing, because I've seen beginners and rookies languish forever in their local BYP/DYP's, simply refusing to learn from even local Semipros or higher players.  But then they go to their first superregional or intrastate, or perhaps even a tour event, and they easily absorb the correct technique from the friends and partners they make there.  Go figure.  The other man's grass is always higher in THC?

But just like in pitching baseball at the major league level, a respected, viable, even feared pitcher has to have one or more options to his favorite killshot.  Sure, he might have a devastating nasty slider or split-finger fastball, but he should also have a workable breaking or offspeed pitch, and perhaps a decent curveball or knuckleball.  Continued practice to also master these alternate pitches is what makes a dominant pitcher.  Which comes to my point, IT IS JUST AS VALID TO USE AN ALTERNATE SHOT or PITCH to hit that GOAL or STRIKEZONE, if that alternate shot is less familiar or less well defended by the goalkeeper or batter.

And baseball teams that have pitchers with multiple "money" pitches also logically have more hitters that can handle more good pitches, because of the access to their own pitching staff's and coaches' philosophies and strategies.  Same way with foosball shooting.  Makes it a lot easier to defend a shot you might not actually use a lot, but it's still easier to defend a shot you yourself have practiced and scored with in the past.  Nothing like doing a shot to get to know what makes a shooter uncomfortable or know what any shooter would be looking for with that same shot.

So I'd recommend a beginner/rookie to practice to get a killshot, sure...  but also to make sure it is a correct technique that can be practiced and relatively mastered for their level within a few months. NOT YEARS.  This would then leave more time to practice and make effective other killshots.  Why burn the energy and concentration on forcing one's rollover or pullshot only, when an alternative (I MEAN A PRACTICED, GOOD ALTERNATIVE) can blow out the current goalkeeper with the minimum stress?  Even only on 4th or 5th points? Then the player can worry about the maximum deadliness of of his/her main killshot at the next game.

I'd recommend warming up one's main or fave killshot, then also warm up one or more alternatives.  Too many times have I seen where a shot percentage is lowered by good goal D, but the forward keeps insisting on figuring out the D, often with variations on the same kill shot that had never been practiced.  Then it turns into a grinding defensive style attrition game, where the more dominant 5bar simply gets more shots and wins.  SOUND WAY TOO FAMILIAR?  A high scoring percentage can affect the opponents with pressure to score, much less pass, as much, if not more, than a game with both goal defenders dominating.

I'd just say: know your weapons as well as the enemy's, BUT bring as much of yours as you can.  You'll have less to worry about ..  And I like that the rollover has come about, because it does allow a higher percentage first killshot to be learned much more quickly (NOT MASTERED, MIND YOU!) , AND ALLOWING BEGINNERS AND ROOKIES TO ALLOCATE MORE TIME TO DEVELOPING THEIR 5bar PASSING and DEFENSE.   I agree with many that it's probably saved both informal and organized foosball in the domestic US, the same way lowering the pitcher's mound in baseball increased scoring and made defense (pitching) much harder.  The snake took over, because it was much easier and faster to learn to a useable level, but it hasn't eliminated or obsoleted the older shots. It just needed time for defenders to adjust and develop the D.  And I believe Rico and other frontpin shooters have re=awakened interest in pinned shots, including the many backpins that used to be around.  So all these doomNgloom predictions are a bunch of crap.  And it still goes back to the 5bar, where lefties like myself have always known that the TRUE heart of foosball lies... IN THE TRENCHES BAYBEEEEE!!!!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 07:56:42 PM by foozkillah »

Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2009, 06:21:50 PM »
I suppose my favorite shot is the pull kick.  It just feels right for me.  Depending on the defense, I'll switch around to other shots, but for the most part -- pull kick. 

I'm reasonably new to the game, but I've been playing long enough to know that the rollover is not my shot. 

I've been playing recreationally for the past few years, and I think I'm not bad -- I haven't played in any tournaments (for now), but outside of that, I win more than I lose.  My point is, I've heard a lot about different shots, and I wonder -- why isn't more said about the tic tac?  That's generally my second choice down from the pull kick.  It does wonders for confusing opposing defenses, and goes in about 80% of the time.  So why is it so widely ignored? 

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2009, 04:42:36 PM »
I suppose my favorite shot is the pull kick.  It just feels right for me.  Depending on the defense, I'll switch around to other shots, but for the most part -- pull kick.  

That's great bwrist,

While you're well on the way to perfecting your pullkick, which is as righteous as any undertaking, especially with the dinks and mixed tic tac quicksets and outright powerkicks of that shot.   But also, perhaps you can also keep switching around to the other shots, hopefully picking up little hints and techniques from good shooters along the way.... until you have one or two more shots that feel "right."  You never know when they'll come in handy.

I've met goalkeepers that seem to defend at decent percentages against your basic good pulls and rollovers, but completely brick a pullkick.  Or vicey - versey - versa.  Wouldn't you think it's nice to hedge your bets against getting knocked out in an early round at a local or bigger event, just cause you happened to go up against that goalkeeper.  Murphy's foos law.
 :o
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 04:47:36 PM by foozkillah »

Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2009, 08:29:59 PM »
That's a great point.  I mean, of course I don't just use the pullkick -- I just usually use that first, and if the goalie can't stop it, I fall into using it the whole game.  If they can, I switch around.  But I'll work in other shots. 

But the tic tac -- what's the deal there?  Why does it get such little attention? 

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2009, 11:23:43 PM »
That's a great point.  I mean, of course I don't just use the pullkick -- I just usually use that first, and if the goalie can't stop it, I fall into using it the whole game.  If they can, I switch around.  But I'll work in other shots. 

But the tic tac -- what's the deal there?  Why does it get such little attention? 

By tic tac, I'm assuming that you mean using a tic tac offense as a 3bar scoring shot, and not the whole slew of 5bar tic tac series very well accepted, at least in North America and Tornado regions, where the flat player figure feet and higher frequency of a solid straightening tic or tac (due to the lower, longer feet) make it a staple alternative.   Having clarified that, the tic tac as a 3bar offense is probably widely practiced as a pickup game or barnstorming (showing off) or desperation shot (getting bricked otherwise).  But with respect to tour play, where one has to invest real time and real money and real vacation days into events, even at the lower levels, it's quite a percentage game.  No different than shots on the tennis or golf tours.  It's quite extreme discipline, too, as one goes up the skill levels.  You only use the shots to maximize the reliability that you'll be able to execute the shot each time you call it up.

Any one-figure front or backpin like a Euro or rollover, and any pull or push shot from a standing set (even when done as a rolling pull or push) logically offer the most reliable control and the highest possibility of as close to a perfect execution as possible.  Set pullkicks and set pushkicks are only slightly less reliable, due to variations in ball grip or roundness as well as weight, or table surface conditions, due to dirt or lubricant or broken off chips or pieces from the player figures or bushings.  Tic tacs and bumpkick versions of the pull and pushkicks have even less reliability.  Depending and changing due to each different ball, the flatness of the 3bar player figures' feet and the rolling conditions of the 3bar rod.

Another reason why many foosers decry the loss of variety and inventiveness of top forwards at the expert and higher events.   Would be nice to have in higher events, and not just when games are runaway blowouts, but only those who actually decided on using tic tacs and other high execution error risk, meaning they practice them as killshots, would bother to use them in a big money or title event.  For desperation after getting bricked, or as a way to shake up the D, or a way to shake up one's own offense, they are still used, but only sparingly.  More so in singles than doubles.  See Billy's and Rob Atha's quickset bump pullkicks when the goalkeeper is not ready - but I believe they practice those to use every once in a while or whenever it's an easy point.  But not when a money shot is needed, with the D there very present.

So I'd say it's just logical percentage play. K.I.S.S.  Less fancy stuff, not those shots that always seems to go wrong at the right moment.  Single player shots like rollovers, set pushes and pulls will always be more reliable than any combo shots(those that use two or more player figures), as with pullkicks, pushkicks, bumpkicks, and tic tacs, even from a set or stopped start.  So-called combination shooters always have to worry about how individually round and grippy and bouncy each different ball is, plus whether it's worth the extra effort and concentration to get or synch into a rhythm, like when one REALLY NEEDS A POINT.  Plus common shots have the advantage that more people you can watch, or even ask, use them, making it easier to learn from those who execute it correctly and from more different players and styles.

Plus I'm sure all foosers who ever played on tour will have played hundreds, perhaps thousands more, pickup games and less important games in their lifetime, so they can save the fancy and more complex shots for those games, anyway.  And besides, do you see pro bowlers switch from their normal strike throw to a fancier cranked shot, or even use their other arm perhaps, on tour?  Even switch-hitters in baseball won't use the side they're weaker on (against a particular pitcher, I mean) to hit with, against a left or right-handed pitcher they're going  up against, just to show how good they are.  And very few tennis players will switch from a right-handed forearm hold to a left handed forearm grip at the pro or tour level, unless they're in desperation mode.  Why should foos tour players be any different or less professional?

Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2009, 12:40:36 AM »
Indeed.  Thanks, that's really helpful.   :)

Offline grandmaster

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Re: Favorite shot
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2009, 05:42:14 PM »
How about a subconcious cutback, by accident? Just a thought...   Oly