Topic: T2000 Coin Op Evaluation

[edisdt]

Hi everyone.  I'm new to this forum but have been an avid player off and on since college.  I'm in the market for a table and found one which I think it a coin-op BM T2000.  I'm hoping the experts here can help evaluate the table.  I've read the buying guide but after inspecting the table I'm a little unsure about its condition.  The asking price is $450 which is the top end of the price range.  I've noticed some water spots on the inside and underneath the table.  The table is stored inside but I noticed black staining on the inside ball return chutes.  Mold or stains from what was once mold maybe?  The play field and side look in good shape, laminate is solid and the goals aren't blown out.  Rods look in good shape though there may be some slight bending but it's really hard to tell.  Also, the metal parts like the hinges and feet appear pitted/rust as well.  One of the goal plates has a loose screw.  Coin mech appears to function but all I was able to do was push it in and pull it back out (not sure if it's been enabled for free play).  One side of the outside laminate is chipped.  Forgive me for the pics but the table was in 2 pieces and the bottom was hard to get to.  If I buy it, I'll definitely pull is out and have it assembled for a more thorough inspection.  Not trying to get a steal of a deal, just trying to determine a fair price.  $450 is the high end so I'm thinking there is some wiggle room but the table appears in pretty good shape for 20+ years old.  Thanks for looking at the pics.  Comments welcome.  Thanks everyone.

[alaskan thunder]

Offer $300 and give them an itemized printout  w/ the upgrade costs of new sidestrips, handles, men, bearings, etc. I wouldn't pay more than that for the table. I bought the same table about 6 months ago for $150. It was really dirty but had good bones...

[edisdt]

Thanks for the reply.  Does it help the resale value to replace parts like the rusted split-top hinges, pitted plastic leveling feet (maybe the legs) and diamond ramps vs. keeping the original patina?  I'll clean it up, but I'm not sure if the condition evaluation has anything to do with original parts vs. replacement parts.  Thanks.

[alaskan thunder]

Thanks for the reply.  Does it help the resale value to replace parts like the rusted split-top hinges, pitted plastic leveling feet (maybe the legs) and diamond ramps vs. keeping the original patina?  I'll clean it up, but I'm not sure if the condition evaluation has anything to do with original parts vs. replacement parts.  Thanks.

IME those parts are not worth the replacement costs. It would probably cost like $200 to replace hinges, legs, and ramps and you would def. not recoup that on resale. Just leave those be and upgrade the table w/ all the parts I mentioned above.

[kgstewar]

Thanks for the reply.  Does it help the resale value to replace parts like the rusted split-top hinges, pitted plastic leveling feet (maybe the legs) and diamond ramps vs. keeping the original patina?  I'll clean it up, but I'm not sure if the condition evaluation has anything to do with original parts vs. replacement parts.  Thanks.

Resale is helped by making the table play well and look good. No added value for "patina". In fact, the particular patina on this table hurts its value. That said, if you go ahead and replace a bunch of parts, as AT said, you will probably not recoup the cost. Replace parts that affect play. Rusty hinges, etc. can be cleaned up.

I personally would be concerned about the water/beer damage. The particle board in these tables swells like crazy when it gets wet and it stays that way even after it dries. I'd check to make sure that the water damage has not affected the playfield or sidewalls.

Brown marble tables in my neck of the woods can easily be found for $300-400. There is one on Craigslist now (Asheville, NC) for $150. That one is in fairly rough shape, but not too different from the one you are looking at. IF the one you are looking at is not water damaged (which would be a deal killer) I'd offer $200. The seller will probably not take it, but as Alaskan Thunder mentioned, you would have to put some money into that table to bring it up to snuff.

If you can be patient, better tables always turn up.

[edisdt]

Thanks for the evals and tips everyone.  The staining on the inside of the table and near one of the goals is a big concern.  Playfield looks in great shape but it means nothing without digging out the base and setting the whole thing up to see how it plays.  Maybe I'm just a stickler for details, but I'm not happy with the rip in the outer vaneer.  Not something that is easy to replace without cannabilizing another BM.  Frustrating as I haven't seen many on CL since I've been looking.  I'm thinking brand new is the way to go but I'm sold on the quality of the old BM tables.  Don't mind spending the cash on a new coin-op but I'm not sure of the build quality.

[papafoos]

The stains are probably from spilled drinks.  If they don't affect the playfield, they're no problem.  What concerns me the most is the swelling on the wall behind the black goalie.  You can see it in the pic of the serial plate.  That's a potential deal killer for me unless considering it for parts.

[kgstewar]

What concerns me the most is the swelling on the wall behind the black goalie.  You can see it in the pic of the serial plate.

Good eye papafoos. I'd walk away from this one.

[edisdt]

Holy crap!  I took the picture and didn't even notice the swelling.  Makes sense since the goal behind the medallion has liquid damage (one of the pics shows it) and it's on the same side as the swelling.  Thanks papa!

[papafoos]

I wouldn't panic yet.  You need to go back and look it over.  It could be just loose formica.  But if that's the case, then you need to figure out why it's turning loose.  You've got a good bargaining chip now if the table is still worth having.

[edisdt]

papa, what do I look for when I re-examine that section of the table?  If the swelling is due to water damage it can't be repaired, but might be ok if it hasn't affected the playfield, correct? Also, I really like the BM tables.  I know it is not wise from a money standpoint, but is it possible to refurbish the entire insides of a table?  I've been searching the net for parts and it seems like not all parts are available.  I know, be patient.  lol.

[kgstewar]

I'm not papa, but I'll weigh in :-)

papa, what do I look for when I re-examine that section of the table? 

If it's just loose formica, when you press against it, it will go back flush. If it's swollen particle board, it won't push back flush.

If the swelling is due to water damage it can't be repaired, but might be ok if it hasn't affected the playfield, correct?

The sidewalls (and back wall) are all part of the play area. If these are bowed out, the ball will bounce in unexpected ways. If the sidewalls are bowed out it could affect the rods because the bearings would be out of alignment. These need to be straight and true.

Also, I really like the BM tables.  I know it is not wise from a money standpoint, but is it possible to refurbish the entire insides of a table?

Anything is possible, but it is not practical. If you have to go that route, it would be easier to just build a new cabinet. And that would not be easy...

I know, be patient.  lol.

An excellent strategy. :-) Not sure where you are located, but Brown Marbles are the most common Tornado coin-op in the used market. I have seen many of these in great shape for less than the table you are considering.

[papafoos]

I probably shouldn't have called it swelling.  It's too difficult to say for sure from the picture.  You need to physically inspect it.  If it is swelling, consider it a parts table.

And yes, the interior walls are a vital part of the playfield.

[edisdt]

papa and kgs.  Thanks for the tips.  Another and more thorough inspection is definitely the answer.  Inspecting the top and bottom to really analyze the extent of the liquid damage is the prudent move.  Much appreciated.