Topic: Upgrading a Harvard Table

[blockhed44]

I know a Harvard is not a nicer table but I have had it for a while and it suits my son and I.  I got the table through the Bud Points promotion back when I was bartending.  And no I did not drink that much beer myself.

My question is about new men for the Harvard rods.  The rods are 5/8 and have the classic style men with a nut and bolt securing them.  Now that my son has gotten much better at foosball, we have broke a couple men and I am looking to replace the entire set with the Shelti men or Tornado men (bored out to 5/8).  The real question for me is the way that the Shelti or Tornado men are secured to the bars with the pins.  Will the pins be able to work with the Harvard rods to secure the men on the rods?  If not, has anyone secured the Shelti/Tornado men to a bar using nut and bolt?  I would like to use the pin system to reduce the weight on the bars, but I don't know if that is possible.  I have contacted a couple of sellers and they do not have any idea about this.

I am also going to upgrade the bearings on the table so we can start playing faster. 
Does anyone have any suggestions on upgrading the table, short of replacing, or about which men to use?

Thanks for any suggestions,
Jim

[alaskan thunder]

Probably more trouble than its worth. Replacing 26 men at $5 a pop = $130. There are base model Tornados for sale in my area for $150. Just ditch the crappy table and buy a cheap tornado.

[alaskan thunder]

Also you will not find any other bearings that are compatible w/ a Harvard.

[man caveman]

that would be kind of like putting a v8 in a pinto,something else would break. I am no expert on foosball but i know what your your going thru. after doing some research and lurking on this forumn i was convinced i had to buy a tornado,bonzini or shelti table.trouble was finding one used for what i wanted to spend.one thing i noticed is the good tables hold there value.I have 2 teenagers myself and i figured they wont be here forever. If you can,keep looking on craigslist and if nothing else after you beat the crap out of your table buy another one of similer quality. used 500$ tables  in good shape are easy to find for cheap.

[xmanicmattx]

Well worth the investment to get a good table.  I always loved my Harvard back when,  but now that I'm used to tornado and fireball I can't imagine how I ever played on anything else. 

[foosnewbie]

Maybe sell the Harvard on CL and use that dough towards a used Tornado?

[blockhed44]

Thanks for all of the replies.  I was hoping to get my question answered instead of everyone telling me to get a better table.
I have found some linear bearings that will get the rods moving smoother than anything else I have ever seen.

Just needed to know about the pins.  I guess I will buy them hoping that they work and go from there.
If they don't, I am sure I can find some system to secure the new men.  I am good with stuff like that.

This was never an issue of $$$.  I could go out and get a new table but do not want to.
I like working on stuff and making stuff better.  So real bearings and shelti men on a harvard table
is the way I am going.

[kgstewar]

Roll pins are cheap, so I'd just buy some and try. I don't know how big the bolts are on your Harvard table but the Tornado roll pins have a pretty small diameter. I'd think they may be a little loose in the holes in your rods but maybe not. Go for it!

[FoosTrain]

Blockhed44 - I know what you are saying.  You just want to do it yourself and upgrade, but everyone is telling you its a bad idea, instead of helping you.  I actually did upgrade a Harvard table.  First, I dropped out the flimsy playfield, glued 4 sheets of MDF under it, and bolted the whole thing back in.  That goes a long way to making it a better table.  You need a flat, level surface, not a bowl, like the stock Harvard has.

Next, I hung metal plates on wires, at 45 degree angles, in the back of the goalie boxes.  Tornado tables have a loose plate that absorbs the hit of the ball when you shoot hard, so it does not bounce back out, like it does on the Harvard.  My hanging plates worked like a charm AND had the added benefit or ringing like hell when you scored on somebody

I also have experience drilling out men.  I sell a foosball trainer, and I recently made a video to show it works on a Warrior table.  Well, I didn't HAVE a Warrior table, so I had to get Warrior men and drill them out.  I have a full shop and am quite experienced at building/fixing stuff, but they did not come out great.  It is REALLY hard to drill a hole bigger, once it is already there, because your drill bit has no place to stick the tip, and keep it centered.  It worked fine for my video, but there is NO WAY I would play with them.  Even after pinning, they are loose and rattly.

OK, now is the part where I tell you those other guys are right   I hate when people tell me I can't do something, or shouldn't.  I rarely do things the way other people do, and often I come up with better solutions.  I sense you are just like me, in that regard.  Having said that, I eventually sold my Harvard and bought two Tornados.  Why?  Even with all the upgrades, there is just no comparison. 

To be fair, if you are just whacking at the ball, which is really fun, there is not that much difference.  The guys is this forum don't do that.  They all precisely control the ball, pass it from rod to rod, and execute planned shots.  Even with an upgraded Harvard table, forget it.  The Harvard is a toy and the Tornado is a finely honed tool.

Also, the Tornado is the standard.  If you and your son want to go out and play anyone else, they will all be playing on Tornados.

I think it is AWESOME that you are playing foosball with your son.  Don't stop.  If you want him to be able to grow up and kick ass on a public table, Get a Tornado.  These guys will argue with me on this point, but you could probably get by with a Warrior or Fireball.

Good luck,
FoosTrain

[man caveman]

I hope i didn't come off as negative. maybe I should have stayed out of the out of it. anyway good luck and hope it works out. as far as drilling making a bigger hole in a smaller hole I know what foostrain is saying. maybe you allready know but if you use a hole saw you would have to plug the existing hole for the pilot bit to go in or use a drill press so you can line up a twist bit.

[FoosTrain]

I used one of those x-mas tree shaped drill bits that have 1/16 inch steps, bigger and bigger.  That allowed me to drill the existing hole bigger, but I could only plunge in 3/16s or so, before I hit the next size up.  I then used a paddle/spade bit to plunge the rest of the way.  Still yuck 

Caveman is right.  You have to plug it, maybe with a dowel rod, and then carefully center your bit, clamp your man, and hope for the best.  I am still saying "don't do it", in my head, but I want to tell you everything I know, on the subject.   -FoosTrain

[alaskan thunder]

Blockhed44 - I know what you are saying.  You just want to do it yourself and upgrade, but everyone is telling you its a bad idea, instead of helping you.  I actually did upgrade a Harvard table.  First, I dropped out the flimsy playfield, glued 4 sheets of MDF under it, and bolted the whole thing back in.  That goes a long way to making it a better table.  You need a flat, level surface, not a bowl, like the stock Harvard has.

Next, I hung metal plates on wires, at 45 degree angles, in the back of the goalie boxes.  Tornado tables have a loose plate that absorbs the hit of the ball when you shoot hard, so it does not bounce back out, like it does on the Harvard.  My hanging plates worked like a charm AND had the added benefit or ringing like hell when you scored on somebody

I also have experience drilling out men.  I sell a foosball trainer, and I recently made a video to show it works on a Warrior table.  Well, I didn't HAVE a Warrior table, so I had to get Warrior men and drill them out.  I have a full shop and am quite experienced at building/fixing stuff, but they did not come out great.  It is REALLY hard to drill a hole bigger, once it is already there, because your drill bit has no place to stick the tip, and keep it centered.  It worked fine for my video, but there is NO WAY I would play with them.  Even after pinning, they are loose and rattly.

OK, now is the part where I tell you those other guys are right   I hate when people tell me I can't do something, or shouldn't.  I rarely do things the way other people do, and often I come up with better solutions.  I sense you are just like me, in that regard.  Having said that, I eventually sold my Harvard and bought two Tornados.  Why?  Even with all the upgrades, there is just no comparison. 

To be fair, if you are just whacking at the ball, which is really fun, there is not that much difference.  The guys is this forum don't do that.  They all precisely control the ball, pass it from rod to rod, and execute planned shots.  Even with an upgraded Harvard table, forget it.  The Harvard is a toy and the Tornado is a finely honed tool.

Also, the Tornado is the standard.  If you and your son want to go out and play anyone else, they will all be playing on Tornados.

I think it is AWESOME that you are playing foosball with your son.  Don't stop.  If you want him to be able to grow up and kick ass on a public table, Get a Tornado.  These guys will argue with me on this point, but you could probably get by with a Warrior or Fireball.

Good luck,
FoosTrain

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