Topic: What do you think about Performance Games tables?

[Six wing]

http://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_gq2NdrMeB1l_600x450.jpg

The players look like Fireball men.  Anyone know how these tables compare to Tornado or Fireball or Dynamo?

[papafoos]

I suspect Fireball may make them but I have no idea how they play.  They are probably a second tier table for Fireball much like Dynamo is for Tornado.  Fireball probably subs for several different tables.  It's the way of the corporate world these days.

I once worked for a milk company that bottled for several different brands.  For the most part, same milk, different cartons.  We did have a lower quality milk for some of the cheap brands.  In the case of foosball tables, some of the parts are probably identical while others are not.

[kman22]

Looks like an Olhausen.
http://www.foosballsoccer.com/madrid.html
According to the above link its some corporate mashup between Olhausen, Performance Games/SureShot  OG
http://www.foosballsoccer.com/sureshot-og.html

I played on one recently. It didn't play like the tornado, warrior or the TS tables I have played on. It was more like the Shelti my brother in law has. Seemed like a solid table but with thin sidewalls.

[johnwallan]

They are a significantly different beast in many ways to a fireball... look at the figure close... it must be the milk man's child?

http://performancegamesinc.com/product_images/0000/1319/ss_redman_CMYK_300.jpg

http://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/Foosball-played-with-passion-3878915.php#photo-3479180

[Six wing]

Just so you guys know where I'm coming from, I don't care for the Tornado style all that much.  Pretty much the only thing I played on growing up were the old $250,000 tables.  The game had a lot of immediacy that seems to be missing from my experiences on Tornados. 

After playing on a Tornado, I was introduced to Fireball and I liked it quite a bit better.  More banking, and the ball seems to be in motion more of the time.

That being said, how do you guys see Warrior characters differ in the way they play from Tornado or Fireball?  And are Warrior and Shelti the same? 

[Buckshot]

I think the biggest difference between Warrior, Tornado and Fireball is table-speed. I played on Warrior last year at Runaway Bay and last week at the tornado World Championships, and I found that both tables are WAY slower than Fireball. The passes are a little easier to catch on Tornado and Warrior because the ball just seems to want to die. Compared to Fireball, these are Dead Ball tables. All 3 of these tables enable excellent ball control, but Fireball's speed and bankability make it a more fun table, in my humbler opinion.

After playing against highly skilled players on Tornado for 2 days at the Tornado tournament and familiarizing myself with the table, I found no element of the Tornado table or game superior to Fireball except passing. It's not that passes are difficult to catch on Fireball, it's just that the ball doesn't die as soon as it hits the player figure.

I own a Fireball and I wouldn't trade it for any other kind of foosball table, it's just flat-out more fun.

[johnwallan]

It is hard to answer your question regarding figure differences because there are other factors.  I think what you are looking for is fast banking style game.  I would suggest warrior figures with a fireball ball.  But I would't hold back on trying different balls...  you'll probably like the shelti ball too.  Really the banking capability and angles are heavily influenced by a number of things and if you're on a different table...well, it will be different.

I find having balls ... ha... different balls, makes the game...  My opinion is Fireballs are medium weight, fast play, with moderate to low control, Tornado 5hr balls are heavy with medium speed and moderate control, Warrior ball is light, slower with high control...  I don't know shelti ball well, but  if I recall medium weight, moderate speed, with moderate control somewhere between tornado and fireball.


I own a fireball coin op table for many of the the secondary aspects of the table, and find the play is quite unpredictable at times with the orange ball, yet, that is more fun to me.   Interestingly, I find the fireball orange ball is loved by my beer drinking crew on other tables due to its unpredictability and sheer speed.  It leads to lots of turn a rounds and fast action yet has enough control to keep the game skillful and slow if you play that way.  It's a real joy to play as the pace of the game can really shift.

[Six wing]

The passes are a little easier to catch on Tornado and Warrior because the ball just seems to want to die. Compared to Fireball, these are Dead Ball tables. All 3 of these tables enable excellent ball control, but Fireball's speed and bankability make it a more fun table, in my humbler opinion.

I own a Fireball and I wouldn't trade it for any other kind of foosball table, it's just flat-out more fun.

That is EXACTLY what I felt when I first played on a Tornado.  I didn't want to say it like that because frankly, I'm almost completely ignorant here.....I'm never going to be good enough to win any games at even the amateur level.  I play because it's fun. 

Anyway, thanks for verifying my suspicions.

[Six wing]

It is hard to answer your question regarding figure differences because there are other factors.  I think what you are looking for is fast banking style game.  I would suggest warrior figures with a fireball ball.  But I would't hold back on trying different balls...  you'll probably like the shelti ball too.  Really the banking capability and angles are heavily influenced by a number of things and if you're on a different table...well, it will be different.

I find having balls ... ha... different balls, makes the game...  My opinion is Fireballs are medium weight, fast play, with moderate to low control, Tornado 5hr balls are heavy with medium speed and moderate control, Warrior ball is light, slower with high control...  I don't know shelti ball well, but  if I recall medium weight, moderate speed, with moderate control somewhere between tornado and fireball.


I own a fireball coin op table for many of the the secondary aspects of the table, and find the play is quite unpredictable at times with the orange ball, yet, that is more fun to me.   Interestingly, I find the fireball orange ball is loved by my beer drinking crew on other tables due to its unpredictability and sheer speed.  It leads to lots of turn a rounds and fast action yet has enough control to keep the game skillful and slow if you play that way.  It's a real joy to play as the pace of the game can really shift.

Thanks for the words of wisdom.  I hadn't considered that the ball was the main culprit.  The pace of the game is my favorite part about the Fireball table. 

I play occasionally with a lot of old-time $250,000 table players.  I absolutely hate the balls that are typically used with those tables; when I first found out about Tornado balls, I introduced them to the group and now we all use Tornado balls with $250,000 tables.  It's a great balance of speed and control.

Which reminds me; after you mentioned on the other post to try warrior players, I looked up the table.  It's got a lot of features I think I might really enjoy(like not worrying about my little kids losing an eye from the rods) and the price for a new one is really great.  I might be fine with splurging on a new warrior table with shelti or Fireball balls.  One thing that bugs me about my current ($250,000-style) table is the fact that the table surface is 1/4" melamine.  The resonance in the table does weird things to the ball travel.

[Six wing]

The other question is, where does one buy Fireball foosballs?  Looking on the foosball.com store, they are perpetually out of Fireball balls.  Come to think of it, since Brad Laurine left Fireball, I haven't seen anything new happen on their website and I don't even think you can order anything from their website; it seems the only way to get any of their stuff is to call Jiang directly.

[johnwallan]

http://performancegamesinc.com/product_attachments/0000/0161/Soccer_retail_parts_r6.pdf  ... these are likely the balls ...

I would highly recommend sampling a variety of balls from this site and your nearest large gameroom dealer.  I have seen the orange ball on the shelf, but have a set already.

[johnwallan]

http://www.foosballaustralia.com.au/shopping/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=56

Seems a yellow ball is being used for competition these days... but I love the orange red for hacking around on friday night.  These guys are in Australia, but will send you a bit of stuff if you arrange it first.

[kman22]

RE: Fireball parts and balls. Check out foozul. He has a connection with the fireball company somehow. I purchased fireball rods from him at a great price. He may be able to offer the same for you.
http://foosball.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6881
I have his email address if you want to contact him directly.

[papafoos]

This was posted just yesterday on another board.

The SureShot ES is indeed one table with Fireball features and parts. It is an OEM table we make for Performance Games owned by the Sheltons. ES has the same figures and rods and handles and playfield and other parts as the lower end Fireball tables and should play like a Fireball. The ES ball is a little different. Best if you can get the new Fireball ball. The Tornado ball is also good on the ES but you will probably find it too hard or slippery. Since you are new and eager to improve, I can send you some new Fireball balls from China when you get the ES. If you get a Tornado then use a Tornado ball.

Dennis

Apparently, it should play like a low end fireball if it is the same model.  Not necessarily a bad thing.  The low end fireballs I have played seemed pretty decent to me.  It may not be tournament quality but I'm sure it's better than the department store tables.