Topic: If you were me - Pick one

[MisterT]

Ok, some of you are going roll your eyes when you read this, and some of you are going to say, just read bbtuna's past posts, BUT, this is a slightly different angle on the Fireball vs. Tornado discussion.  I currently don't own either of these tables.
I've read many of your very informative posts and I appreciate all of  knowledge and your perspective that has been shared.  I'm planning on purchasing a new table to replace my 14 year old table. I've played on Tornado tables before and really enjoyed the speed and solid feel... much better than what I'm getting rid of. I have two boys (10 and 14) and I really appreciate spending time with them indoors that doesn't involve video games.
I like to buy quality and I'm not too concerned about price. I've narrowed it down to two tables, largely based on your posts, but I don't have room for two tables. I have to pick one and I want your help.
My first pick is the top of the line Fireball and my second pick is the Tornado T3000. They are probably both overkill for me, but I'm hoping that having the best table will encourage my boys to play more.
My concern about Fireball is that they bailed out of North America, so parts/tech support is a risk. The other thing is that I don't know how long they've been in business.  For example, I understand that they have become established in Asia and other countries, but is that enough to service their start-up debt, if they are a start-up? It would be a total disappointment if they went under.  I don't know if things are any financially better for Tornado.
So, if you were me, would you go for the better playing (Fireball) table or would you go for the locally supported (Tornado) table that still plays really well? Don't tell me that I'll be happy with either of them... gotta pick one.
Also, do you have a preference for one-man or three-man goalie tables? My last table was a one-man goalie table (not with corner inserts, but with real raised corners) and I liked how the raised corners affected the play, but I think that I'd have just as much fun with a 3-man goalie table.
If you can spare a few minutes to share your "If you were me" insight, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
MisterT

[papafoos]

I would definitely go Tornado.  I do like the way a Fireball plays, but I have a long history with Tornado.  I'm personal friends of Bob Furr and Ed McCloud.(previous owners)  I don't know the current owner personally, but I do know they have been in the business since at least the 70's.  They also make Champion shuffleboard, Dynamo and Valley pool tables and in the early days made video game cabinets and might still.  Tornado is also American made in Richland Hills, Tx though I've never been to their shop.

I've played a couple of tournaments on Fireball and like the way they play but I prefer to stay with what I know.  The support from Tornado, especially Charles MacIntosh, is exceptional.  The times I've dealt with Jim Waterman (this board) have also been great.  This is the area that Fireball fails miserably in.  Would you buy a Lexus if you couldn't get replacement parts or service?

And since it appears you're near Houston, consider if your kids or you begin to take it seriously, you have an excellent array of tournaments in your area.  Your kids are going to be more comfortable playing on the prevailing table.

Now about the 3 man goalie.  Ed McCloud wanted to show me the prototype for his new design.  It was the flat surface with no glass or ramps and a 3 man goalie.  I had only played 1 man goalies up to that time.  They played really nice but I remember thinking to myself that he must have gotten some kind of bad drug.  Once I got to play them on a regular basis, I came to like them better and miss them now when I play on a table without them.

If you are actually in Texas, go to Buffalo Billiards in Austin the weekend of October 24 and see what foosball at the upper level really looks like.  Kids are allowed with an adult but they have to remain upstairs in the tournament rooms.  They will also have tables available to buy after the tournament.

And no, I don't get a commission but if you come to Austin you can buy me a beer.  Only one, I'm a cheap drunk.

[kgstewar]

I'll vote Tornado, also. I have never played on a Fireball and from what I've heard they are fantastic tables and many like them better than Tornado. But as papafoos said, the lack of parts is an issue. You WILL need replacement parts at some point and it seems for the past year or so at least, there is no clear and consistent way to get them (or even a table, for that matter). A T3000 plays great, there are Tornado tables all over the place, and it is easy to get replacement parts, even for 20+ year-old tables.

Although they are rarer, Bonzini are also great tables, but do play quite differently from the Tornado. Thanks to BonziniUSA it is  easy to get replacement parts, even for tables that are pushing 50 years old.

[MisterT]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinions with me kgstewar and papafoos. I'm going to go with a T3000 non coin with a 3-man goalie. I know that lots of folks like the extra weight of the coin op model, but from my perspective, it's just something else that can break over time.
Take care and play-on

[johnwallan]

Toronado...Probably the best choice... yer plans involve teenagers, and a fireball at this time is more of a collectible than a beatdown and fix again workhorse.  I love my fireball and totally recommend one, if it makes sense and it falls in your lap.
 
...  the preference for coin is more about weight and serviceability.  Coin implies a split cabinet design which allows for easier access to the innards to clean chases, store maintenance kits, increase access to replace long term wearing components such as the playfield, and to move to new locations easily.   If you are clever, the coin op can be easily bypassed with about $15 worth of wood and fasteners to make it free play.

[kgstewar]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinions with me kgstewar and papafoos. I'm going to go with a T3000 non coin with a 3-man goalie. I know that lots of folks like the extra weight of the coin op model, but from my perspective, it's just something else that can break over time.
Take care and play-on

Great choice. The non-coin T3000 is only a few pounds lighter than the coin-op version (it only lacks the weight of the coin tray and the few parts required for coin operation). Tornado even advertises both versions at 355 lbs. I think the convenience of not having to mess with the coin mechanism is worth it. Have fun!

[alaris]

Have you thought about Warrior?

[MisterT]

Yes, I considered Warrior, Fireball, and Tornado. The reviews that I read ranked Warrior #3, but I thought that it was probably the best value. I've never played on a Warrior.

[bbtuna]

definitely Tornado because Fireball isn't supported
The reason to buy coin op is because it is an easier resale because your market is a little bigger because someone might buy it to place it in a bar...plus You might want to place it in a bar sometime
the other reason is because you can get tournament used coin ops and you can't get tournament used non-coin....no sense in paying extra for brand new because tournament used is the same thing
charles macintosh has them (as do some regional promoters) or plan to go to a Mary Moore tournament and pick out the one you want and take it home from there...you and your boys would have a great time seeing foosball at its best, get ideas, learn tons of stuff, and take your time shopping

understand I bought a non-coin (and play on one still) and have regretted it many times....I was just getting back into foosball and I paid way too much.  it plays great, just like a coin-op but there are other things to consider

[RobYates]

I haven't read the rest of the posts yet, but if you have no intentions of playing in Tornado tournaments, then I would go with Fireball. Fireball you can do everything that can be done on Tornado, and then some. This will allow for you and your boys to learn different shots, that you would not even attempt to learn on Tornado. I think fireball is the absolute best table in terms of what shot/passes can be done. I own a Tornado, and a Bonzini. I love both of these tables, but only on Fireball can I play a Bonzini and Tornado style of play on the same table while still being effective.